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The internet is broken because it is free

news.ycombinator.com

21–30 of 31 posts

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#22
post #13

Gods... Are people still drunk/high from yesterday? I come from times when there was no css and literally no ads, or at least they were rather exception than rule. As well in most places you do need to pay for access so stricte speaking its not really free :) And people still do stuff for free. There was never times in out history you could literally amass so much knowledge for free. Are you disturbed by ads? Go amd…

...why bother Googling at this point? The well is so poisoned by SEO BS, your typical Boolean searches are getting further and further away from yielding any useful general results.

Once people realized PageRank existed, the algorithmic arms race destroyed any semblance of user friendliness remaining on the Web, and severely detracted from actually useful communication of information.

We've got a semantic split of the Web, one for for comms, one for mercantilism, one for info prop, content hosting and streaming, the surveillance web.. but each is indexed in the same bloody index. So your Web to learn is obfuscated by the noise of people trying to sell you on one thing or the other, or places with terrible advice that just try to score ad bux off common how-to queries.

Try searching for the name of an old niche hand tool on the Net when all you've got is a physical description.

Used to be able to do it. In recent years though, I've found success rates have plummeted.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#24
post #22
post #13

Gods... Are people still drunk/high from yesterday? I come from times when there was no css and literally no ads, or at least they were rather exception than rule. As well in most places you do need to pay for access so stricte speaking its not really free :) And people still do stuff for free. There was never times in out history you could literally amass so much knowledge for free. Are you disturbed by ads? Go amd…

...why bother Googling at this point? The well is so poisoned by SEO BS, your typical Boolean searches are getting further and further away from yielding any useful general results. Once people realized PageRank existed, the algorithmic arms race destroyed any semblance of user friendliness remaining on the Web, and severely detracted from actually useful communication of information. We've got a semantic split of th…

Use "search" "term", use negative operators and learn other search operators that works. I don't have any problems finding stuff amd filtering the seo bullshit. Even really old stuff. Or use different search engine.

Its not internet's fault that you cannot find something, go and complain to google about their algorithms or even better, go work for them to improve it instead of complaining.

Btw. Pagerank doesnt work since ages and positioning in google is waaay harder than it was some time ago (i wont even say some years ago).

Here you go, someone just posted it in here: https://github.com/opsdisk/yagooglesearch

Maybe spend some of your free time to contribute to this free project given on free internet.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#25
post #19

> It should cost a small amount of money to send an email. And who decides how much that should be? How do you price out the spammers (who have access to stolen funds) without pricing out the hobbyist or the NGO in a low income country? If you want to use economics to block spam, then require that any newly registered (or newly email-sending) domain put up a cryptocurrency bond before it is allowed to send email. (Al…

And who decides how much that should be? The recipient. Right now I can't stop you from sending me spam if you know my email address. Spam filters work somewhat, but I should be able to say: block everyone except these 100 people on my contact list or transactional emails I have opted into. Everyone else needs to pay me $0.50 before the subject line even hits my inbox. And maybe I can even set up tiers for times of t…

Such a system would indeed solve the economic conundrum of how to set the price, you're right.

It's worth pointing out, though, that having per-recipient prices would require a change to the protocols to allow the sender to know in advance how much it will cost for them to have their email delivered (and thus whether it is worth them writing the email in the first place), which breaks the "store and forward" architecture of email.

If we're going to break the architecture of email like that, in a backwards incompatible way, we might as well just switch everyone over to Matrix, or try some other protocol changes which are just as invasive but don't have the extra complication of money changing hands.

For example, recipients could indicate to a prospective sender whether they are on their spam whitelist or not, and if not, they could indicate what sort of email they would accept, such as "20 UTF-8 characters only", which is enough to receive a password reset code or friend request but not enough to explain why a Nigerian prince needs your help.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#26
post #24
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...why bother Googling at this point? The well is so poisoned by SEO BS, your typical Boolean searches are getting further and further away from yielding any useful general results. Once people realized PageRank existed, the algorithmic arms race destroyed any semblance of user friendliness remaining on the Web, and severely detracted from actually useful communication of information. We've got a semantic split of th…

Use "search" "term", use negative operators and learn other search operators that works. I don't have any problems finding stuff amd filtering the seo bullshit. Even really old stuff. Or use different search engine. Its not internet's fault that you cannot find something, go and complain to google about their algorithms or even better, go work for them to improve it instead of complaining. Btw. Pagerank doesnt work s…

Yes. I know all of those tricks and use them regularly.

I also grew up at a time where observing actual signal and seeing the difference between "the good stuff" and "marketing woo" didn't even require half of it. I also spend a lot of time sweating how to leave behind a learnable system as good as the one I grew up with and getting frustrated because younger people and other adults can't get consistent replicable results because every damn search provider has more "personalization hooks" or agenda driven weight functions to result display that search queries for the neophyte are many times the length of ones not even a decade or so old; with better results getting hidden under the stuff that someone has a fiscal interest in getting SEO'd to the top.

The Internet does have a problem if we can't rear Internet savvy youth, which face it, the majority of parents can't because they aren't.

And no. The entire practice of SEO basically poisons the well for everyone. Any information under that type of evolutionary pressure is going to become garbage to anyone but someone who is versed in the more arcane aspects of searching, which is not the bloody thing I'm looking to perpetuate, justify or otherwise make more tenable.

So you're left with either curation, building your own search index you never share with any significant number of people or you capitulate to the market and the perverse regulations and perception management from that do nothing but perception manage anyone unaware of what is going on.

We live in a digital world separated from the actually extant one by multiple layers of entrenched players tweaking levers to determine what we do and don't see.

That ain't cool. We can't fix problems no one can see and come to a consensus on.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who decides how much that should be? The recipient. Right now I can't stop you from sending me spam if you know my email address. Spam filters work somewhat, but I should be able to say: block everyone except these 100 people on my contact list or transactional emails I have opted into. Everyone else needs to pay me $0.50 before the subject line even hits my inbox. And maybe I can even set up tiers for times of t…

Such a system would indeed solve the economic conundrum of how to set the price, you're right. It's worth pointing out, though, that having per-recipient prices would require a change to the protocols to allow the sender to know in advance how much it will cost for them to have their email delivered (and thus whether it is worth them writing the email in the first place), which breaks the "store and forward" architec…

It's worth pointing out, though, that having per-recipient prices would require a change to the protocols to allow the sender to know in advance how much it will cost for them to have their email delivered (and thus whether it is worth them writing the email in the first place), which breaks the "store and forward" architecture of email.

Not necessarily...people are already writing emails on spec because there is no guarantee that I will read it. It's just that they send it to thousands of people hoping that the fraction who read it will make it worth the time spent writing the email.

Without changing the architecture of email you could reject emails (e.g. 550: rejected, unsolicited emails require $0.50 payment). Or you could passively ignore emails that don't meet criteria (you could piggyback on the read receipt functionality to provide confirmation).

All of this is backwards compatible with existing email

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#28
The internet exists because of equipment and software that costed money, time, physical labor, intelligence, etc. to make. Nothing is free in this world. Everything has a cost.

Otherwise, getting rid of idiots would fix the internet. But poverty, not winning the genetic lottery, and tyrants cause idiocy. So, it is hard to fix the internet. The rise of Orwellian online surveillance, elite-owned media platforms with dehumanizing censorship, creepy phone verification systems, brainwashing social credit scores, and so forth will cause closed-minded idiocy for most people rather than open-mindedness. This is what happens when cut-throat idiots get involved in monopolizing the internet. So, it is harder to fix the internet now.

Independent journalists are literally getting attacked on the internet for exposing terrifying things that the ruling class is trying to hide with oppressive censorship, banning websites, blood money, etc. It is to silence victims while the ruling class lives in luxury during this COVID pandemic.

Most North Americans, South Americans, Africans, Europeans, and Asians do not have much money nor power. They are more powerless and less rich because of taxes, tax evasions for the ruling class, dumbed down education systems, dehumanizing censorship disguised as political correctness, social credit scores, Orwellian online surveillance, elite-owned media companies, government-tracked devices (like smartphones or Windows 10 computers), abusive international trade policies, occupational licensing, child labor laws, etc. The ruling class has successfully turned most people into dumbed down serfs internationally. They do this by monopolizing the internet for example. They monopolized the internet by making websites prey on people who are not part of the ruling class through anti-adblockers, V.P.N-blockers, geoblocking, dehumanizing censorship disguised as political correctness, and luring idiots into buying things from oligarchical businesses that keep them drowning in impulsive consumerism. Unconventional art, intellectual music, black comedy, investigative journalism, serious debates, and other things have been increasingly replaced by a false sense of security on the internet from this oligarchical monopoly.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#29
post #26
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use "search" "term", use negative operators and learn other search operators that works. I don't have any problems finding stuff amd filtering the seo bullshit. Even really old stuff. Or use different search engine. Its not internet's fault that you cannot find something, go and complain to google about their algorithms or even better, go work for them to improve it instead of complaining. Btw. Pagerank doesnt work s…

Yes. I know all of those tricks and use them regularly. I also grew up at a time where observing actual signal and seeing the difference between "the good stuff" and "marketing woo" didn't even require half of it. I also spend a lot of time sweating how to leave behind a learnable system as good as the one I grew up with and getting frustrated because younger people and other adults can't get consistent replicable re…

So lets make internet paid, track everyone and control what and who posts on spammy blogs. For sure dictators would like that idea... Ohhh, wait, its already happening! Great China firewall, censorship and new restrictions on using VPN's in Russia. Brilliant idea. Im sure reporters and whistleblowers that do report aggainst oppresive goverments will love it! of course your idea supports so much the freedom and safety of speech.

Maybe ask Khashoggi? Ahh, shit his dead. Or maybe Navalny? Damn, he was sentenced for hard labour and prison because he was aggainst dictator and i believe you wont get visitation.

Or maybe ask reporters and politicians in Poland (my country)? Public tv is already nationalistic and racist propaganda tube and they used Pegasus on opposition during election. Im sure they will love your idea, everyone who says and write everything on the bill, yuppie! Seo spammers can use vpns so lets block them too, just like in mother Russia! Good old heavy hand rule and censorship! Or tell that to basic human and then especially woman rights defenders in Afghanistan, im sure they will appreciate your idea as well!

Lets control everyone because we have problem with seo spam, thats a brilliant solution!

And so selfless, ahhhh, I just miss the words to describe and glorify your outstanding attitude towards freedoms and privacy! I mean you rule, you should be the next president of US and make sure that everything everyone does on internet is in neat and of course fast access database!

Because we know all people and politicians are good and they wont abuse it! Such a humanism, im full of admiration.

But if you make it please let me know. So we can warn people to run and hide before theyre locked away after smearing campagins or simply killed because they speak the truth about dictators!

Because you cant find stuff because of seo spam, i mean... Just grow up and stop being egoist thinking just about your own comfort. Youre not alone on this planet and people have bigger issues than not being able to find old app on internet!

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#30

Interesting idea. Here are a few questions that immediately come to mind for me personally: - Would forcing micro-transactions also force law abiding people to provide a real ID for all transactions? - Would criminals be able to use existing methods of stolen and fraudulent funds and identification for these transactions? If not, how do you keep them from gaming this system? - Would large corporations be able to affo…

-maybe. Depends on the transaction. The currency could be up to the trading parties. Some may be effectively anonymous. -criminals use the free internet now and use the free real world too. Crime is crime regardless whether it costs money to engage in or not. If gasoline was free do you think crimes would increase or decrease? I'd say probably increase. -sure large corporations would be able to afford a large number…

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