Live data from Hacker News

The internet is broken because it is free

news.ycombinator.com

11–20 of 31 posts

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#11
> It should cost a small amount of money to send an email.

And who decides how much that should be? How do you price out the spammers (who have access to stolen funds) without pricing out the hobbyist or the NGO in a low income country?

If you want to use economics to block spam, then require that any newly registered (or newly email-sending) domain put up a cryptocurrency bond before it is allowed to send email. (All existing domains would be grandfathered in, meaning they would have an incentive to adopt this system).

If a domain is found to send too much (DKIM-signed) spam, the bond can be forfeited (slashed or donated to charity), triggered by N-of-M validators agreeing. The validators could be some mix of the biggest email providers, and non-profits like Mozilla and the ISRG. They would also be able to adjust the bond price according to how much spam they still see.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#12
Microtransactions are not a silver bullet. I expect you would want to set the level at less that what local fast food places pay to stick their leaflets through my door, yet the paper spam keeps coming.

Search engines funded by advertising seem to me to be a rare example of online advertising working for all parties. What makes you say it’s oxymoronic?

My understanding is that adding micropayments to every click online would greatly reduce how much people used the internet (because they have to work out how much each click would cost, and whether it would be worth it). This does not automatically seem a win.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#13
Gods... Are people still drunk/high from yesterday? I come from times when there was no css and literally no ads, or at least they were rather exception than rule. As well in most places you do need to pay for access so stricte speaking its not really free :)

And people still do stuff for free. There was never times in out history you could literally amass so much knowledge for free. Are you disturbed by ads? Go amd download wikipedia mirror. Thats just being rude.

Some people some times spend a lot of time on providing. Its just just that the can drop a banner or two.

ppl who want everything for free, free, free are just lazy/unfair. Especially if they dont give back for free themselves. Think about time and effort others put to provide you with content.

Dont like it? Instead of doing google or other search engine go and buy yourself a library or two. And then spend hours looking up toc's. Ohh you say you cant afford it? Ups, then do strike and never google anything again.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#14

Once basic access and activities are tied to money, there are more transactions and audit trails. How do you envision keeping privacy? Also, right now, we have problems, but do get both types of free (beer and speech). I'm afraid we'd lose both once finances are attached to basic activities.

As it is there is no effective privacy online without resorting to tor or vpn and even that is not 100% certain. If people were invisible in real life do you think shoplifting and violent crimes would increase or decrease? Sometimes too much privacy is a bad thing. Maybe laws that limited the radius online tracking in space and time would be effective at balancing privacy desires with transaction logging.

> If people were invisible in real life do you think shoplifting and violent crimes would increase or decrease?

As long as the items people shoplifted were still visible, I think shoplifters would be more cautious than they are now, especially as they'd have no idea if their actions were being watched and followed by a squad of invisible security guards / police.

Similarly, if people were invisible, then violent crimes would be harder just because potential victims can hide better, and potential criminals wouldn't know when they are really alone with their target.

Anyway, anonymity doesn't mean invisibility. A better analogy would be wearing a mask. It's true that criminals often choose to wear one, but I'm not sure if bans on masks have been proven to reduce crime.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#16
> Microtransactions for everything would fix the internet.

Then why isnt there such an internet? People have been saying this for 20 years, and there is no technological barrier.

To me, there are currently at least three "internets". One I pay for, mostly for work, that includes paid email, cloud storage, and office suite, as well as AWS and other tools.

The second is "the good internet" - things like documentation, open source tools, some kinds of discussion forum, and other community stuff that is there as part of a community and not really because someone has profit as a motive (I know that open source is increasingly being invaded by corporate interests, but anyway for now there is still lots of unencumbered stuff)

And then there is the cesspool that it the attention economy. Outside of rare forays to try and get some information snippet, or check news, I try and stay away.

A pre-streaming television analogy might be HBO et al, PBS, and something like history channel that last time I checked cut to commercial about every 5 minutes and only played low budget reality crap.

Just because there is a bad part doesn't mean that's all there is

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#18
This is one of the pillars of the web3 argument as I understand it. It's a tough sell to convince people to pay for something they are accustomed to getting for free. HBO and NetFlix went the no advertising route and became quite successful by offering something worth paying for. You can pay to upload videos on Vimeo free of advertisement if you'd like to investigate that use case.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#19

> It should cost a small amount of money to send an email. And who decides how much that should be? How do you price out the spammers (who have access to stolen funds) without pricing out the hobbyist or the NGO in a low income country? If you want to use economics to block spam, then require that any newly registered (or newly email-sending) domain put up a cryptocurrency bond before it is allowed to send email. (Al…

And who decides how much that should be?

The recipient. Right now I can't stop you from sending me spam if you know my email address. Spam filters work somewhat, but I should be able to say: block everyone except these 100 people on my contact list or transactional emails I have opted into. Everyone else needs to pay me $0.50 before the subject line even hits my inbox. And maybe I can even set up tiers for times of the day or days of the week, or charge more on days when I get a lot of email.

Re: The internet is broken because it is free

#20
post #9

can't wait until I get a bill for $500 because my kid sent an e-mail to bill gates

The same thing happens when kids buy $500 of Robux because you left your card active in their account. The solution could be to require 2FA for a transaction over a certain amount.
Post reply on HN