Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#141

Post by kortex » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #64

maxclark wrote: post #12

Nuclear power is an amazing energy source. It doesn’t look like we’ll ever get beyond the politics that would make small scale It’s really a shame.

It's not politics preventing nuclear power it's the eye watering cost. Unless you count getting taxpayers to shoulder the cost as politics.

> The actual cost of generating electricity by nuclear power is not published by EDF or the French government but is estimated to be between €59/MWh and €83/MWh (~$67-95).

Way cheaper than nuclear in USA.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#:~:t....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_sourc...

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#142

Post by wildmanxx » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

_dain_ wrote: post #60

wildmanxx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a good thing. Just converting energy sources is not going to save us. We need to tackle the energy sinks too, i.e., getting smarter about how we use the available energy, i.e., mostly being more energy efficient. ("We" as in "humankind".) Raising prices is the right incentive here. In the long run, +50% is not actually that bad. There is room for a lot more.

paying way more for electricity is not a good thing, sorry.

Funny, I had this exact discussion with a colleague at work the other day. She claimed this is nonsense and won't change anybody's mind.

Then she mentioned that she just had bought a new car. I asked what kind, it's a hybrid. I asked why? Well, because her old car was using so much fuel, and with recent price hikes, that became too expensive, so she just bought one that was significantly more fuel efficient.

The _exact_ same person! Just 2 minutes after claiming monetary incentives don't work demonstrated that it actually worked for her!

I have high hopes that price hikes are what convinces people to change their behavior. Not ads, not appealing to ethics or conciousness or "the future of your kids" or pictures of dying polar bears. You need to feel it in your wallet, then you act, plain and simple.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#143

Post by grouchysmurf » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

The main reason behind this is to enforce decision of letting Russian gas in i.e. to have NS2 officially opened. With power shortages -- in the whole Europe -- that this shutdown will only make worse, blocking NS2 will no longer look as a viable option.

Tough times are coming.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#144

Post by la_fayette » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

junon wrote: post #115

la_fayette wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This summer a large part of germany was completely flooded. This was a natural disaster, which might happen at higher frequencies nowadays. The alarming systems in place competely failed and around 200 people drowned in Germany. There are so many things which could happen and countries like Germany are not prepared for.

Which is exactly why geologists do surveying before they build a nuclear power plant...

This is ridiculous! The house owners were convinced that there couldn't take place a flooding in that area! Most of them had no insuranced for flooding either. No specialist of any kind has predicted such a scenario...

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#145

Post by bluecalm » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:47 PM UTC

S3raph wrote: post #66

this is the the result of a nonexistent European energy policy, let's switch of coal and nuclear and not work on accelerating the approving process of renewable power plants what should go wrong right? the entire EU is completely dependent on gas which we import from countries like Russia, Algeria. Currently due to the skyrocketing gas prices, production from coal is at a all time high, but hey the green transition i…

Don't forget successful more then two decades long effort to torpedo the pipeline from Norway to Poland while forcing through Nordstream that goes around.

The EU have a consistent policy of leaving Putin an option to put pressure or just straight up capture some land to the East of German border by making sure the gas won't stop flowing in case that happens.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#146

Post by luckylion » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #33

csunbird wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and we will end up paying 50% more for our energy usage, just because of political swings.

Avoiding nuclear will save you money in the long run though

As a leading politician of the German social democratic party famously said: a kwh you don't use is least expensive. I guess they'll save plenty of money when there's power rationing.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#147

Post by Ekaros » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

_dain_ wrote: post #125

afterburner wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean they're cheaper anyways. They win.

until it's night and the wind isn't blowing.

Freezing to death is free... And great for climate.

Intercontinental connections are possible, but what options we have Africa, Russia and Middle-East? Not exactly stable options. So local production is only real solution and nuclear is very reasonable option from carbon standpoint.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#148

Post by wildmanxx » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

jabl wrote: post #140

wildmanxx wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, playing world police should be right at the top of Europe's plan for saving the climate.

Why not both? Build renewables and nuclear instead of increasing dependency on gas from a geopolitical bully?

Why not just mix human rights in China also into the discussion? Make everybody into vegans cause animal cruelty? Police brutality? School crisis?

Obviously different problems are always best tackled in combination! Practically guarantees success. /s

And obviously geopolitical bullies should just not be talked to. Hm so let's see who is left to talk to then. Russia, China, U.S., NATO, none of those won't an option anymore. Good to keep your principles. And good luck doing anything good to the climate with the strategy of only talking to yourself (assuming your country isn't a geopolitical bully itself, which is likely quite a stretch, given the odds.)

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#149

Post by PartiallyTyped » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #135

SimonSword91 wrote: post #7

I live in Germany and I wonder, what the consequences will be of shutting down both coal and nuclear in very short time. My guess is, we will pay for nuclear energy from France and coal energy from Poland when wind slows down. The new government tries to accelerate the construction of renewable energy but I think their plans will fail because of worker shortage and supply chain problems.

Germany's primary energy source is now coal, now way they can shut it down. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-coal-tops-wind-as-primary-elec... This is so stupid, what are they thinking?

Looks like pandering to Greens/anti-nuclear people, but honestly, I don't know. To me, it appears borderline insane, but there's probably something that I am missing.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#150

Post by jabl » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

rsj_hn wrote: post #37

jpxw wrote: post #20

To be replaced by Russian gas. Great move!

Yeah, I'm a supporter of Nordstream 2 because cheap gas is better than expensive gas, but I can't understand why Germany is making itself more dependent on gas instead of building out nuclear capacity to be less dependent. The whole policy really doesn't make a lot of sense, it's not pro-fossil fuel or anti-fossil fuel, it's not pro-Russia or anti-Russia. It's all of the above , which is worse, since it's anti-everyt…

They're pursuing their own interests just fine; Schröder got a nice position on the board of the nordstream project.