Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

thehindu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 279 posts

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#101

Post by sharklazer »

jhgb wrote: post #81
vlovich123 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortality from existing fossil fuels is significantly worse (just from production and ignoring all the pollutants in the air and even ignoring that coal plants regularly emit more radiation into the air than have ever died from nuclear power generation). In fact, mortality from nuclear power generation is closer to solar and wind. Yes the incidents are scary and news grabbing but that’s it. The actual data is that it…

> Mortality from existing fossil fuels is significantly worse That may very well be true but it's completely irrelevant for future choices. Not building more nuclear plants doesn't mean you'll be building more fossil fuel plants instead. EDIT: For all the downvoters, see the fourth chart (Gross power production in Germany 1990-2021, by source (non-stacked)) on https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energ…

Actually... it probably does. Look at the respective increase in NatGas consumption as California closes things down. Renewables can only do so much.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#102

Post by GoldenMonkey »

jhgb wrote: post #81
vlovich123 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortality from existing fossil fuels is significantly worse (just from production and ignoring all the pollutants in the air and even ignoring that coal plants regularly emit more radiation into the air than have ever died from nuclear power generation). In fact, mortality from nuclear power generation is closer to solar and wind. Yes the incidents are scary and news grabbing but that’s it. The actual data is that it…

> Mortality from existing fossil fuels is significantly worse That may very well be true but it's completely irrelevant for future choices. Not building more nuclear plants doesn't mean you'll be building more fossil fuel plants instead. EDIT: For all the downvoters, see the fourth chart (Gross power production in Germany 1990-2021, by source (non-stacked)) on https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energ…

It sure does.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#103

Post by xondono »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #40
maxclark wrote: post #12

Nuclear power is an amazing energy source. It doesn’t look like we’ll ever get beyond the politics that would make small scale It’s really a shame.

It's not politics. It is a practical reality that it is dangerous. As dangerous as coal plants. But for some reason HN likes to turn a blind eye to un-disposable toxic waste and the potential for citywide devastation (Chernobyl).

Because that waste is tiny and controllable.

All energy sources are dangerous, the toxic waste from making the batteries required for solar + wind only is no joke.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#104

Post by neoromantique »

jhgb wrote: post #81
vlovich123 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortality from existing fossil fuels is significantly worse (just from production and ignoring all the pollutants in the air and even ignoring that coal plants regularly emit more radiation into the air than have ever died from nuclear power generation). In fact, mortality from nuclear power generation is closer to solar and wind. Yes the incidents are scary and news grabbing but that’s it. The actual data is that it…

> Mortality from existing fossil fuels is significantly worse That may very well be true but it's completely irrelevant for future choices. Not building more nuclear plants doesn't mean you'll be building more fossil fuel plants instead. EDIT: For all the downvoters, see the fourth chart (Gross power production in Germany 1990-2021, by source (non-stacked)) on https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energ…

Unfortunately if we look at Germany, it means exactly that, as the electricity deficit from closing down these plants is largely offset by coal plants.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#105

Post by k__ »

alexpetralia wrote: post #4

My extremely uninformed understanding is that there is an energy crisis in Europe, and that this will exacerbate the situation.

Basically all energy could be covered by renewables, if people would stop complaining that they don't want them build near them.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#107

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

dmead wrote: post #68
maxclark wrote: post #12

Nuclear power is an amazing energy source. It doesn’t look like we’ll ever get beyond the politics that would make small scale It’s really a shame.

I do not understand how 2 major incidents (in living memory) that could have ruined the biosphere don't discredit nuclear power for everyone.

Because that didn’t happen. The idea that they “could have ruined the biosphere” is a completely sensationalist fabrication.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#108

Post by jhgb »

Ekaros wrote: post #99
jhgb wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mortality from existing fossil fuels is significantly worse That may very well be true but it's completely irrelevant for future choices. Not building more nuclear plants doesn't mean you'll be building more fossil fuel plants instead. EDIT: For all the downvoters, see the fourth chart (Gross power production in Germany 1990-2021, by source (non-stacked)) on https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energ…

So what is the currently available and reasonable in cost grid scale solution? That is to provide needed power 24/7/365 for decades to come?

So far, probably what Zerrahn et al. suggested in 2018 (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001429211...), namely overbuild renewable generation to achieve a Pareto-optimal mix of generation of storage. This doesn't prevent opportunistic uses such as demand-controlled charging of electric vehicles or demand-controlled hydrogen generation from the overgeneration which further increases the appeal of this option.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#109

Post by jacquesm »

RandomTisk wrote: post #91
jacquesm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small plants, especially something on the order of 10MW, which is about 1% of a normal sized one would be extremely uneconomical. You need all of the security and process of a much larger plant for a piddly little bit of electricity. You're talking about the equivalent of a couple of windmills, that require a small fraction of the land, and will happily run unattended.

Some of the plans I've seen has them buried deep underground encased in concrete, requiring little to no maintenance for decades.

TNGs?

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#110

Post by Ekaros »

dmead wrote: post #68
maxclark wrote: post #12

Nuclear power is an amazing energy source. It doesn’t look like we’ll ever get beyond the politics that would make small scale It’s really a shame.

I do not understand how 2 major incidents (in living memory) that could have ruined the biosphere don't discredit nuclear power for everyone.

Apart from some localised hotspots, the actual worse case that is Chernobyl is doing amazingly from biosphere point of view. Not having humans around is actually great for biosphere.

Fukushima on other hand is insignificant. Not really having much effect on anything.

Post reply on HN