Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#91

Post by RandomTisk » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #83

maxclark wrote: post #12

Nuclear power is an amazing energy source. It doesn’t look like we’ll ever get beyond the politics that would make small scale It’s really a shame.

Small plants, especially something on the order of 10MW, which is about 1% of a normal sized one would be extremely uneconomical. You need all of the security and process of a much larger plant for a piddly little bit of electricity. You're talking about the equivalent of a couple of windmills, that require a small fraction of the land, and will happily run unattended.

Some of the plans I've seen has them buried deep underground encased in concrete, requiring little to no maintenance for decades.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#92

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

SimonSword91 wrote: post #7

I live in Germany and I wonder, what the consequences will be of shutting down both coal and nuclear in very short time. My guess is, we will pay for nuclear energy from France and coal energy from Poland when wind slows down. The new government tries to accelerate the construction of renewable energy but I think their plans will fail because of worker shortage and supply chain problems.

It frees up a lot of budget for solar and wind construction, you can expect to see quite a jump in that over the next couple of years.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#93

Post by An0nymousC0ward » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

jpxw wrote: post #25

oaiey wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is amazing. But two major incidents within 30 years time range are not so amazing. When we continue in that rate we will have a serious problem. And with aging reactors and instability everywhere it does not look good.

One incident caused by a natural disaster that would never happen in a European country like Germany, the other caused by mismanagement and frankly jaw droppingly pigheaded incompetence which would also never happen in a country like Germany. Edit: in response to the large number of people bringing up BER and other infrastructure failures in Germany: yes, BER and others may have been bad, but a completely different k…

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Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#94

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #39

praptak wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shutting down nuclear to buy coal sounds pretty countereffective. What was the justification for this decision?

Nuclear is "bad" and scary... Plus you know nuclear weapons. And solar and wind produce plenty... Apart form times when they do not, like many times during winter.

Continent sized landmasses can survive on wind and solar assuming HVDC interconnects.

Some storage would be nice to have, preferably more than a weeks' worth.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#95

Post by ren_engineer » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

maxclark wrote: post #12

Nuclear power is an amazing energy source. It doesn’t look like we’ll ever get beyond the politics that would make small scale It’s really a shame.

more money to be made by politicians taking bribes from China who produces 90% of the worlds solar panels and windmills. I'm sure sending billions to China won't have any long term negative effects, definitely nothing negative about being dependent on a foreign country to create your energy supply

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#96

Post by wildmanxx » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

johnisgood wrote: post #3

Yeah, this has been known for a long time now that Germany is planning to shut down their nuclear plants. I have no clue why. There is a country in Eastern Europe and >60% of their electricity is from their nuclear power plants, and they are extending it. Imagine this country exporting electricity to Germany. Anyways, I believe it was a pretty shitty idea to say no to nuclear.

No post body was provided.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#97

Post by yakshaving_jgt » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #61

SavantIdiot wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not politics. It is a practical reality that it is dangerous. As dangerous as coal plants. But for some reason HN likes to turn a blind eye to un-disposable toxic waste and the potential for citywide devastation (Chernobyl).

Devastation is a strong word. The restricted area around Chernobyl is incredibly wild and lush right now. It's just humans that don't want to live there for credible health concerns. Excessive resource extraction causes devastation.

> It's just humans that don't want to live there for credible health concerns.

A significant population of residents actually moved back there, despite the restrictions. I believe all of the former residents of Chernobyl (which is actually a tiny village) are now dead, the last old babushka passing in October/November 2016. I visited what was left of her house.

There are still plenty of people living in and around the exclusion zone for various reasons (mostly military).

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#98

Post by whiteboardr » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

praptak wrote: post #23

SimonSword91 wrote: post #7

I live in Germany and I wonder, what the consequences will be of shutting down both coal and nuclear in very short time. My guess is, we will pay for nuclear energy from France and coal energy from Poland when wind slows down. The new government tries to accelerate the construction of renewable energy but I think their plans will fail because of worker shortage and supply chain problems.

Shutting down nuclear to buy coal sounds pretty countereffective. What was the justification for this decision?

Solely political for federal elections following the Fukushima incident.

It’s sad, and almost infuriating, how an event that would never threaten safe nuclear plant operation in Germany set the stone rolling for “Energiewende”.

Personally i think Germany is making a huge mistake and will regret this course down the road.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#99

Post by Ekaros » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

jhgb wrote: post #81

vlovich123 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortality from existing fossil fuels is significantly worse (just from production and ignoring all the pollutants in the air and even ignoring that coal plants regularly emit more radiation into the air than have ever died from nuclear power generation). In fact, mortality from nuclear power generation is closer to solar and wind. Yes the incidents are scary and news grabbing but that’s it. The actual data is that it…

> Mortality from existing fossil fuels is significantly worse That may very well be true but it's completely irrelevant for future choices. Not building more nuclear plants doesn't mean you'll be building more fossil fuel plants instead. EDIT: For all the downvoters, see the fourth chart (Gross power production in Germany 1990-2021, by source (non-stacked)) on https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energ…

So what is the currently available and reasonable in cost grid scale solution? That is to provide needed power 24/7/365 for decades to come?

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#100

Post by mirekrusin » Fri, Dec 31, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

It's overall sad, Germany is at the top of the list of competent countries to run nuclear plants. Better news would be if they double on it and sell surplus to the rest of Europe.