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Children's Risk of Serious Illness from Covid-19 Is as Low as It Is for the Flu

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Re: Children's Risk of Serious Illness from Covid-19 Is as Low as It Is for the Flu

#101

Post by kcplate »

criley2 wrote: post #28
hitpointdrew wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of anyone un-vaxxed going to the hospital after catching covid is 0.89% (source: https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimat... ) and it is even lower than that if you are vaxxed. It is incredibly unnecessary and risky to vax children, and probably most adults. The only people that this vax should be recommended to are people in high-risk categorizes.

Others have called out various bits of misinformation/lies in your post but I'll call out another. We vaccinate children against a wide variety of things on a routine basis and a pre-requisite for attending school, and the covid vaccine is literally no more risky than those, and they aren't risky. It honestly feels straight anti-vax to make up lies calling it unnecessary and risky, especially with our health care sys…

Yes, we vaccinate children with established vaccines with well known risks that have been understood across decades. We simply do not have that knowledge with these vaccines. I believe saying it’s “no more risky” is relying on an assumption that simply is not based on any factual data, since the factual data to make that statement definitive will not exist for years.

Consider the following with these (mRNA) vaccines (speaking from a U.S. perspective): 1. This is a new type of vaccine that was developed extremely rapidly and the companies behind the vaccines have lawsuit protection against damage the vaccines may cause (now and in the future). 2. An accelerated testing protocol was used. 3. There are political drivers behind these mandates. 4. It is unknown if there are long term effects across the population at all ages and there some known specific risks for boys at a certain age group that has caused some countries to pause using these vaccines at certain age groups. 5. They don’t prevent infection in the same way that we understand other vaccines to work. 6. We have not yet established that the vaccine provides a greater severe disease protection rate in children beyond their already existing rate against severe disease Covid (there are just not enough kids experiencing severe disease to make a statistically significant prediction of vaccine protection).

I’m a thrice vaccinated individual, and I believe the risk/reward ratio for the vaccine for folks above 50 is frankly a no brainer decision. However, if I had young children…I’d be hesitant about vaccinating them with an mRNA Covid-19 vaccine and I think it’s simply much better to vaccinate the at risk population around the kids at this time where the severe Covid disease risk ratios are higher.

Re: Children's Risk of Serious Illness from Covid-19 Is as Low as It Is for the Flu

#102

Post by criley2 »

codr7 wrote: post #48
criley2 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others have called out various bits of misinformation/lies in your post but I'll call out another. We vaccinate children against a wide variety of things on a routine basis and a pre-requisite for attending school, and the covid vaccine is literally no more risky than those, and they aren't risky. It honestly feels straight anti-vax to make up lies calling it unnecessary and risky, especially with our health care sys…

Oh come on now, we all know the Covid vaccines pushed in the west are nothing like what came before. It's a completely new approach, which is why we know very little about long term consequences yet. I'd say it feels straight insane to run this experiment on children when there's little to no risk of them getting sick from the actual virus.

Oh come on now, the MRNA vaccines (which are not the only ones in the west, as the west also uses more traditional vaccines like the J&J) are not that new and have been in production for decades.

And yes it's a completely new approach -- that is out of your body in weeks and sparks the same immune response that other approaches do.

The idea that there is long term consequences to this is a claim that needs evidence to back it. There's no reason to suggest there would be any new long term effects.

I'd say it feels straight insane to doom teachers, parents and grandparents to infection by school age children, while our hospitals are at capacity and rationing care, and I would call such a policy an intentional murder by policymakers. We know children bring covid-19 home, we know it tears through older populations, we know teachers are at risk, we know our hospitals are triaging care and declining patients, and you'd let that vector go unvaccinated.

All because you're afraid of long term consequences of a 2 decade old technology that causes the same physiological effects as the older technology.

Re: Children's Risk of Serious Illness from Covid-19 Is as Low as It Is for the Flu

#103

Post by criley2 »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #84
kerneloftruth wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many other medications do you take, or more specifically _require your children to take_ that: 1. were invented 18 months ago, have been available for only a year, and were hurried through the FDA's processes 2. underwent limited clinical trials 3. the manufacturers and providers are immune from lawsuits 4. the effectiveness was cited as 95% 8 months ago, but has proven to be much less. ... I'm betting that the n…

There's good reason to be skeptical. Here's a video on pfizer's own clinical study, that raises many questions on the rate of side effects, all cause mortality. https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/media-resources/th...

This is literally anti-vax propaganda, and a shameful one at that. The Pfizer vaccine has saved millions of lives. This community has gone downhill. Ironic that I am called out for calling someone "anti-vax", too.

Re: Children's Risk of Serious Illness from Covid-19 Is as Low as It Is for the Flu

#104

Post by codr7 »

criley2 wrote: post #102
codr7 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on now, we all know the Covid vaccines pushed in the west are nothing like what came before. It's a completely new approach, which is why we know very little about long term consequences yet. I'd say it feels straight insane to run this experiment on children when there's little to no risk of them getting sick from the actual virus.

Oh come on now, the MRNA vaccines (which are not the only ones in the west, as the west also uses more traditional vaccines like the J&J) are not that new and have been in production for decades. And yes it's a completely new approach -- that is out of your body in weeks and sparks the same immune response that other approaches do. The idea that there is long term consequences to this is a claim that needs evidence t…

BS.

Re: Children's Risk of Serious Illness from Covid-19 Is as Low as It Is for the Flu

#105

Post by Jansen312 »

dv_dt wrote: post #2

But the risk for children getting sick at school and bringing it back to their parents very much does not play out like the flu. I also think it is irresponsible for this article to not mention what ages they’re actually talking about. At some point there is a crossover of the risk and it may be in the younger to mid teens.

Same severity as common flu. I got sick from common flu that my kids brought back. The issue here is basically how many percentage you get severe flu vs severe covid. Current covid is significantly milder compare to earlier one just came out from China plus majority has been vaccinated. Current flu is also significantly milder than the one responsible for Spanish or bird flu. Response need to be measured and not a one size fit all. Healthcare (admin side) will love to continue these as they can claim from government. You shouldn't take at face value whatever these healthcare professional is preaching at 100%. You can now go to 10 hospitals and it will be much less severe than if you do so just 9-12mths ago. Even during the height of covid, death rate from covid is around 4% (flu is like undee 0.2%). With 80% almost no symptom. Plus if you actually do extensive test, death rate will be way lower than 4%. Singapore proved that with their exceptionally low death rate due to their exceptional testing (increasing the denominator). My key point here is measured response. At some point we need to get back to normal lives just like the Americans that gone thru Spanish flu, polio and smallpox. The next time people around you talk about how dreadful Omicron is, ask them how many died due to Omicron strain. Ask why healthy infected Omicron is such a serious statistics when people dying or even "maimed" by Omicron is unreported or statistically not "recorded" or "published". Also asked yourself this, flu vaccines have been around for decades and many children did died from common flu, why you and the people you know didn't get flu jab religiously?

Re: Children's Risk of Serious Illness from Covid-19 Is as Low as It Is for the Flu

#106

Post by kerneloftruth »

criley2 wrote: post #103
dukeofdoom wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's good reason to be skeptical. Here's a video on pfizer's own clinical study, that raises many questions on the rate of side effects, all cause mortality. https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/media-resources/th...

This is literally anti-vax propaganda, and a shameful one at that. The Pfizer vaccine has saved millions of lives. This community has gone downhill. Ironic that I am called out for calling someone "anti-vax", too.

Well, "anti-vax" is a sweeping generalization, and usually meant as an insult. The comment speaks of skepticism, not denial or opposition; and, skepticism is very healthy. Critical thinking is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Re: Children's Risk of Serious Illness from Covid-19 Is as Low as It Is for the Flu

#107

Post by skazka16 »

sjg007 wrote: post #54
skazka16 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Africa health minister confirmed that Omicron is a mild variant and is far less dangerous than Delta. It has also been confirmed that children: 1. Have higher chances of getting myocarditis after getting vaccinated. 2. Develop long lasting immunity after being exposed to the virus [1] That makes me believe that there is absolutely no reason to vaccinate kids. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01089…

I mean #1 has been widely debunked and in #2 they didn't test against Delta or Omicron. Maybe the results generalize but from the adult studies we've seen all show reduced neutralizing responses to Delta and Omicron as compared to the original strain. Prior infection seems better against Delta but omicron is it's own thing as in immunity is not maintained. Interestingly omicron infection may protect against delta how…

What do you mean debunked? It was NOT debunked. In fact, it has just recently been confirmed. Please, see this research paper - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0.pdf – for men <40, dose 2 and dose 3 of Pfizer have more myocarditis than sars-cov-2 infection, and this is true for dose 1 and dose 2 of Moderna. Also, Pfizer boosters (Dose 3) have more myocarditis for men <40 than infection.

Re: Children's Risk of Serious Illness from Covid-19 Is as Low as It Is for the Flu

#108

Post by sjg007 »

skazka16 wrote: post #107
sjg007 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean #1 has been widely debunked and in #2 they didn't test against Delta or Omicron. Maybe the results generalize but from the adult studies we've seen all show reduced neutralizing responses to Delta and Omicron as compared to the original strain. Prior infection seems better against Delta but omicron is it's own thing as in immunity is not maintained. Interestingly omicron infection may protect against delta how…

What do you mean debunked? It was NOT debunked. In fact, it has just recently been confirmed. Please, see this research paper - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0.pdf – for men <40, dose 2 and dose 3 of Pfizer have more myocarditis than sars-cov-2 infection, and this is true for dose 1 and dose 2 of Moderna. Also, Pfizer boosters (Dose 3) have more myocarditis for men <40 than infection.

COVID causes more cases of myocarditis.
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