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Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

med.stanford.edu

281–290 of 339 posts

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#281

While depression can certainly be caused by chemical imbalance and not because of how your unconscious mind impacts/limits your experience of life, I took the approach that exploring my subconscious through therapy was the way to get out. For me it worked very well and I think the journey is an amazing one to go on. Building from the ground up and understanding all the foundations within. I always wonder about treatm…

Great Post, thank you for sharing. I do take issue with the commonly parroted claim that depression can be a chemical imbalance. It's a notion arising from pharma marketing psyops, and is largely without utility. It even risks being an antipattern. The few pros include separating responsibility and thus alleviating some guilt, which often coexists with depression, and annoying spiritualists. Tell me if I missed any.…

I agree with your claim, but in my experience I encounter people who explain mood disorders as chemical imbalances mostly in a different context. Where I see it most often are good-intentioned people trying to argue against stigma and poor treatment of mental illness. The idea is that there is indeed a physical aspect to it and not just "all in your head", and hence should be treated with the same sympathy toward the patients as physical illnesses, and this is directed toward people holding a certain mindset that stigmatizes mental illness as an argument to not do so. Of course, this is a terribly insufficient characterization of mood disorders. Perhaps this characterization in a game of telephone eventually became misconstrued in the popular consciousness as essential to the disorders.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#282
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great Post, thank you for sharing. I do take issue with the commonly parroted claim that depression can be a chemical imbalance. It's a notion arising from pharma marketing psyops, and is largely without utility. It even risks being an antipattern. The few pros include separating responsibility and thus alleviating some guilt, which often coexists with depression, and annoying spiritualists. Tell me if I missed any.…

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Just that we shouldn't recognize that depression can be a chemical issue because that doesn't help us fix the problem? Are you saying that anti-depressants don't work? So if depression is more about mental models, life choices, and drive and whatever, why do so many people suffer from depression in cycles? There is little change from one day to the next, and yet, many pe…

Anti-depressants do not cure depression, they only temporarily relieve it. And they eventually stop working as one inevitably gets desensitized to them.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#283

While depression can certainly be caused by chemical imbalance and not because of how your unconscious mind impacts/limits your experience of life, I took the approach that exploring my subconscious through therapy was the way to get out. For me it worked very well and I think the journey is an amazing one to go on. Building from the ground up and understanding all the foundations within. I always wonder about treatm…

> While depression can certainly be caused by chemical imbalance

I'm still not convinced this is true. I think it is just as probable that any apparent "chemical imbalance" is actually a symptom, not the cause, and while treating the symptoms can alleviate some of the suffering it is not a cure.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#284

While depression can certainly be caused by chemical imbalance and not because of how your unconscious mind impacts/limits your experience of life, I took the approach that exploring my subconscious through therapy was the way to get out. For me it worked very well and I think the journey is an amazing one to go on. Building from the ground up and understanding all the foundations within. I always wonder about treatm…

I think the main problem we view depression as a disease when it is a symptom with several possible causes. Most people I know haven't done the deep introspection when life circumstances or past in some cases preverbal traumas exist.

Additionally, we're generally told quite a lot of lies and made to believe fantasies from the earliest ages about - the world, who we are, and our place in the world. I have a theory and it's just a theory when we get misaligned with certain, let's call them, cosmic truths - there's a mind and body reaction, often outside of our conscious ability to recognize the problem.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#285
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me a while to realize that most people don't consider suicide as one of a few strategies to deal with everyday problems. Thought process: I don't want to do my homework. I could (A) get up and do it, or (B) kill myself. Happily, I've learned to dissociate myself from the part of my consciousness that thinks that way.

> suicide as one of a few strategies to deal with everyday problems. That’s as much a solution to everyday problems as nuking the entire planet and the human race out of a existence is a solution to, say, Covid or hunger.

Nuking planet is different as it will nuke all other species. Removing only humans is a solution that actually works for better of everything else things.

Life is constant struggle for most humans (not talking about privileged here). In the end we all die horribly going through all that trauma, so peaceful suicide like hypoxia may be a solution to stop the suffering.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#286
post #284

While depression can certainly be caused by chemical imbalance and not because of how your unconscious mind impacts/limits your experience of life, I took the approach that exploring my subconscious through therapy was the way to get out. For me it worked very well and I think the journey is an amazing one to go on. Building from the ground up and understanding all the foundations within. I always wonder about treatm…

I think the main problem we view depression as a disease when it is a symptom with several possible causes. Most people I know haven't done the deep introspection when life circumstances or past in some cases preverbal traumas exist. Additionally, we're generally told quite a lot of lies and made to believe fantasies from the earliest ages about - the world, who we are, and our place in the world. I have a theory and…

Do you mind expanding on your theory a bit? I think I agree with you.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#287
post #200
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given those two options, I'd end up choosing A. So thinking of B would actually be motivating. It wouldn't feel suicidal to think of both of those options.

The mental illness is when option B in this example seems preferable to small inconveniences and embarrassments, and when one doesn't think of things like, (C) forget about it and go hang out with some friends.

Life is full of small inconveniences and big ones time to time. It's not just one small one. So wanting to stop all that should not be considered illness, but forcing to continue the pain and trauma should be. Life is ultimately a meaningless thing, and most people suffer for it. Some people are privileged and they decide what is illness and what is not based on their own life.

One has to work 9-5 whole life that slowly kills their health and die horribly. That's normal, but if one does not want to continue that, it's illness. One must suffer. There is no other way whatever people here says, the real world does not work in any other way.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#288
post #237
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which ADHD medicine is good these days? do they raise blood pressure or act as a stimulant? (I guess I'm asking if there's anything better than adderall and ritalin these days)

Yes, there are much better options like Vyvanse or extended release Adderall or Concerta.

Note that these are still stimulants tho. Vyvanse is unique in that its a slightly modified dextroamphetamine (adderall) molecule that gradually gets metabolized by the liver into dextroamphetamine, sort of a "natural" extended release and has a much smoother (side) effect curve. Concerts and XR are just cleverly designed pills that release two doses of plain methylphenidate/amphetamine spaced out, so there's two distinct peaks with a small lull between.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#289
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> suicide as one of a few strategies to deal with everyday problems. That’s as much a solution to everyday problems as nuking the entire planet and the human race out of a existence is a solution to, say, Covid or hunger.

Indeed. Thus we describe that experience as mental illness.

Why is wanting to stop pain and trauma is illness and wanting to continue in more of that useless suffering is normal? I am not talking about privileged here but most people who struggle whole life in world.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#290
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me a while to realize that most people don't consider suicide as one of a few strategies to deal with everyday problems. Thought process: I don't want to do my homework. I could (A) get up and do it, or (B) kill myself. Happily, I've learned to dissociate myself from the part of my consciousness that thinks that way.

> suicide as one of a few strategies to deal with everyday problems. That’s as much a solution to everyday problems as nuking the entire planet and the human race out of a existence is a solution to, say, Covid or hunger.

The thing about everyday problems is that they are every day. It isn't just looking at having to do your homework today, it's having to do your homework tomorrow, the day after that, and the day after that, out into what may as well be infinity.

Homework isn't a great example, but you can substitute anything that causes you suffering. For me, a lot of it is about my weight. I went through more suffering than most people can imagine to lose more than half of my bodyweight, and I was pretty happy with the result... until I started letting myself do the things I'd had to give up to get there: eating out with friends (or even attending any event with food), not doing intense workouts more than 3 days a week, having the occasional snack, eating something other than protein bars every meal, etc. My weight started increasing, naturally, and I realized: I never get to stop going through all that suffering if I want to maintain my weight. Ever. Ever. And without being able to maintain that weight I instead get to feel like a fat piece of shit for the rest of my life instead. Given those two options, the idea of just ending my life here and now doesn't seem so bad.

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