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Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#221

Post by boublepop »

angryfeller wrote: post #216

I have simply stopped believing in depression, I do not blame this "mental illness" for my inaction. Depression is used by many (including myself a couple years back) to relieve any responsibility off oneself.

You are conflating cause with diagnosis. And your conclusion is quite offensive to those living with depression, which is a well established diagnosis. You might want to consider rephrasing it, unless you really mean to imply that you believe that people suffering from depression are all collectively just making up excuses. If that is truly your belief, I have to wonder how you interpret the results of this study?

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#222

Post by Archien »

xapata wrote: post #125
rubicon33 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had depression for 20+ years and the best way I would describe it is like this: Think of that little "kick" you get when you think of something you want to do. Maybe you like eating ice cream, maybe you like playing tennis, whatever it is... that feeling, that subconscious little mental boost that gets you up off your ass, and moving... is completely absent in the depressed mind. That spark that initiates and su…

It took me a while to realize that most people don't consider suicide as one of a few strategies to deal with everyday problems. Thought process: I don't want to do my homework. I could (A) get up and do it, or (B) kill myself. Happily, I've learned to dissociate myself from the part of my consciousness that thinks that way.

My thinking is slightly different in this case then yours:

Ending it today will stop having to do x today, tomorrow and rest of my life.

So it's not just the homework of the day.

But due to my thinking I would also not just go without consuming my money and doing only what I want as long as possible as it also freed me from certain social boundaries.

Like suicide is bad, you need to work, lifing as long as possible is good etc.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#223

Post by vasco »

ntSean wrote: post #187
JamisonM wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disentangling pandemic effects from "normal" life is complex but overall in the US suicide rates are actually down for 2020, though slightly increased for younger Americans. The trend in the US was upwards into 2019 so these are positive developments. It is very difficult to properly assess 2020-2021 survey data both because the "you should be depressed" messaging is very strong in the media and the bias in who respo…

> the bias in who responds to surveys is complicated by the pandemic. Many people have lost family members and been pushed into poverty. It is incredibly callous to think mental health can be discretely measured without accounting for the environment. Suicide is not a quantitative measure of mental health.

> Suicide is not a quantitative measure of mental health.

I'd say a population with high suicide rates is more afflicted by mental health issues than one with lower rates. What would you say?

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#225

Post by NotVerstappen »

jondwillis wrote: post #98
ajaxexact wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you feel persistently low, tired, unhappy, or unable to do things then it's a real possibility. The PHQ-9 is a pretty standard depression screening questionnaire that you can complete in a minute or two. https://www.mdcalc.com/phq-9-patient-health-questionnaire-9

as someone with mental health issues going through a rather prolonged and winding down period, i’ve taken this before. just got my high score! going to bring this up with my therapist tomorrow

I am increasingly confident I suffer from depression, rather than just being generically miserable.

How do you deal with the trust issues posed by that questionnaire? I have suicidal thoughts most days, but I'm concerned that revealing this to an NHS doctor would quickly result in my freedom of choice on what happens next being taken from me. Seems like one of the few cases where US healthcare (where you are explicitly a customer as well as a patient) has some advantages.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#226

Post by neuroma »

FailMore wrote: post #176

While depression can certainly be caused by chemical imbalance and not because of how your unconscious mind impacts/limits your experience of life, I took the approach that exploring my subconscious through therapy was the way to get out. For me it worked very well and I think the journey is an amazing one to go on. Building from the ground up and understanding all the foundations within. I always wonder about treatm…

Great Post, thank you for sharing.

I do take issue with the commonly parroted claim that depression can be a chemical imbalance. It's a notion arising from pharma marketing psyops, and is largely without utility. It even risks being an antipattern. The few pros include separating responsibility and thus alleviating some guilt, which often coexists with depression, and annoying spiritualists. Tell me if I missed any.

Analogy: if I told you an athlete is different to a couch potato because of chemical imbalance, you'd think I was obtuse. While technically correct on some level that explanation obfuscates useful relational information about training, motivation, routine, mindset, culture, and circumstance. Similarly if I told you to become an athlete by only taking supplements that augment the phospho creatinine ATP pathway, you'd think me a crook.

Oversimplifications sell pills and make for memorable catch phrases, but fall short of empowering us to become happy and well.

Let's try and move our collective understanding beyond chemical imbalance; it's a tired mantra with scant utility.

Disclosure: neuro psych doctor

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#227

Post by hkt »

xapata wrote: post #208
nebula8804 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For me, a short 3-4 month course of a particular SSRI lets me beat back the worst of it Can you elaborate which one are you using? I was prescribed Wellbutrin/bupropion (along with some therapy sessions) about a month ago and I seem to notice no changes. I'm going to continue to be hopeful but it seems like this wasn't the one for me so just wondering what you were using.

I found medications ineffective, but my last therapist helped me tremendously. If your therapist isn't helping, find a new one. There's no shame in switching.

The most important thing in therapy is relational depth. Doesn't really matter what the method is.

"There is research to support common factors theory. One common factor is the client–therapist interaction, also known as the therapeutic alliance. A 1992 paper by Lambert showed that nearly 40 percent of the improvement in psychotherapy is from these client–therapist variables."

Quote from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo_bird_verdict

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#228

Post by a_f »

lovemenot wrote: post #106
endisneigh wrote: post #61

I'm curious what this treatment would do to people who are "not depressed." What's the downside?

Perhaps the next Timothy Leary will have an fMRI in the basement and a line of customers running down the street.

I remember reading a while back a article on how a US military research group was looking at improving focus and some particular test scores using TCS. Which sent me on an investigative rabbit hole of people that are using it at home in a diy manor. So I don't think you are too far off!

A quick google pulls pack a couple of interesting links: A subreddit https://old.reddit.com/r/tDCS/ and an article https://www.wired.com/2014/05/diy-brain-stimulation/

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#229

Post by Broken_Hippo »

fy20 wrote: post #146
rubicon33 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had depression for 20+ years and the best way I would describe it is like this: Think of that little "kick" you get when you think of something you want to do. Maybe you like eating ice cream, maybe you like playing tennis, whatever it is... that feeling, that subconscious little mental boost that gets you up off your ass, and moving... is completely absent in the depressed mind. That spark that initiates and su…

Does that apply to things you 'have' to do as well? I don't really like shopping for groceries, but I'd rather do that, than order take out that's expensive and probably not very healthy. If I'm going to cook something, I'd rather cook something with a different taste than eat pasta again. I don't really want to do laundry, but I do want to have clean clothes that don't smell. If I could afford to do so I wouldn't wo…

Does that apply to things you 'have' to do as well?

For some folks: This is the reason for a shower becoming a monumental victory in one's day: Sometimes just getting out of bed is a struggle for folks. I'm in a few cooking subreddits, and often get folks looking for "depression food": Food that takes no effort (cooking at all can be too much effort) yet is still a bit healthy. At this point, you probably aren't enjoying food anyway. I've known someone that literally bought new underwear because laundry was the more difficult option.

Not everyone has all of this, and folks are pretty good at hiding it from others and putting on a happy face.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#230

Post by jjeaff »

neuroma wrote: post #226
FailMore wrote: post #176

While depression can certainly be caused by chemical imbalance and not because of how your unconscious mind impacts/limits your experience of life, I took the approach that exploring my subconscious through therapy was the way to get out. For me it worked very well and I think the journey is an amazing one to go on. Building from the ground up and understanding all the foundations within. I always wonder about treatm…

Great Post, thank you for sharing. I do take issue with the commonly parroted claim that depression can be a chemical imbalance. It's a notion arising from pharma marketing psyops, and is largely without utility. It even risks being an antipattern. The few pros include separating responsibility and thus alleviating some guilt, which often coexists with depression, and annoying spiritualists. Tell me if I missed any.…

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Just that we shouldn't recognize that depression can be a chemical issue because that doesn't help us fix the problem? Are you saying that anti-depressants don't work?

So if depression is more about mental models, life choices, and drive and whatever, why do so many people suffer from depression in cycles? There is little change from one day to the next, and yet, many people with depression can feel great one day and terrible the next. Or pregnant women can feel great before giving birth and then give birth to a perfect baby and suddenly start feeling depressed soon after.

How do you use therapy to cure depression if the depressed person has no reason to feel depressed?

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