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Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#141

Post by tgv »

causi wrote: post #123

Cost (and availability/wait time for nations with public healthcare) are a concern. I know several people who received conventional TMS for 30 minutes a day for six weeks. That cost them, with insurance, about $1500. It was effective for an average of six months. This treatment is an order of magnitude more time spent in the machine, even if over a shorter period. What will it cost? Will it be accessible to those who…

$1500 is cheap. I know people who’ve been receiving therapy 1 hr/wk plus medication for years. Even here, where the medical costs are a lot lower than in the US, that’s probably €5000/yr, and that excludes the indirect costs of depression.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#142

Post by tgv »

witheld wrote: post #120
jcims wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a used TMS machine on ebay for $8k (and $70k) and clinical instruction videos on YouTube. Could be a good side hustle haha. Unfortunately for SAINT it looks like you also need fMRI to correctly target the therapy...that's going to be a bit tougher to DIY.

Just start the process, get the fMRI scan, pay for that, and request a copy and bail.

For those taking this seriously: fMRI requires careful presentation of stimuli and a complex analysis. It’s not just a scan. I doubt you can get that at Scans’R’Us.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#143

Post by ishche »

gexla wrote: post #82
girvo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, the lack of those things are definitely present in myself when I'm experiencing a depressive episode (I am diagnosed with clinical depression): I sleep badly, either not at all or for 12-18 hours a day, I drink far too much, I do not leave my house, and my hobbies either fall by the wayside entirely or I partake in them with no enjoyment or happiness from it. If you're experiencing those, it might be wor…

Noticed that both you and the OP mentioned drinking. Just the drinking can cause much of this. Drinking screws up your sleep cycle, which can also cause much of this. Drinking sessions are also time consuming, so you have less time for other things you enjoy anyway. Sure, some things you can do while drinking, but those may not be the things you would prefer to be doing while sober.

I was under impression that an alcohol causes a depression.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#144

Post by DannyBee »

tombert wrote: post #76

Huh, I've been talking to my therapist about my antidepressants not being terribly effective anymore. Is there a way to sign up for a clinical trial for this?

clinicaltrials.gov will give you all the clinical trials going on.

A basic search for clinical trials that are recruiting for TMS + depression are in the hundreds.

(You need to further filter by location, etc)

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#145

Post by photochemsyn »

geysersam wrote: post #136
causi wrote: post #123

Cost (and availability/wait time for nations with public healthcare) are a concern. I know several people who received conventional TMS for 30 minutes a day for six weeks. That cost them, with insurance, about $1500. It was effective for an average of six months. This treatment is an order of magnitude more time spent in the machine, even if over a shorter period. What will it cost? Will it be accessible to those who…

Depression has an enormous economic impact. Fatigue and pain (depression related symptoms) are some of the most common reasons people can't work in the wealthier part of the world. If the treatment costs $4000 dollars yearly and makes the difference between debilitating depression and functioning taxpayer that is self financing for the public healthcare. Not to mention the personal suffering.

Psychedelic mushrooms are far less expensive and have a similarly effective result in similarly sized trials: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/...

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#146

Post by fy20 »

rubicon33 wrote: post #117
pcurve wrote: post #57

“I don’t procrastinate anymore,” he added. “I’m sleeping better. I completely quit alcohol. I’m walking my dog and playing the guitar again, for nothing more than the sheer joy of it.” Most importantly, he said, “I’m remaining positive and being respectful of others. These are big changes in my life.” Serious question: are these typical signs of depression? Now I'm wondering if I have depression.

I've had depression for 20+ years and the best way I would describe it is like this: Think of that little "kick" you get when you think of something you want to do. Maybe you like eating ice cream, maybe you like playing tennis, whatever it is... that feeling, that subconscious little mental boost that gets you up off your ass, and moving... is completely absent in the depressed mind. That spark that initiates and su…

Does that apply to things you 'have' to do as well?

I don't really like shopping for groceries, but I'd rather do that, than order take out that's expensive and probably not very healthy.

If I'm going to cook something, I'd rather cook something with a different taste than eat pasta again.

I don't really want to do laundry, but I do want to have clean clothes that don't smell.

If I could afford to do so I wouldn't work, but until I retire that's not possible, so I might as well make the most of it and increase my earnings/time ratio.

I don't really want to go see my family, but I feel I have a duty to do so.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#148

Post by girvo »

ishche wrote: post #143
gexla wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noticed that both you and the OP mentioned drinking. Just the drinking can cause much of this. Drinking screws up your sleep cycle, which can also cause much of this. Drinking sessions are also time consuming, so you have less time for other things you enjoy anyway. Sure, some things you can do while drinking, but those may not be the things you would prefer to be doing while sober.

I was under impression that an alcohol causes a depression.

Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant, which is commonly just shortened to “depressant”. This doesn’t mean it causes depression, it means it has a particular effect on us humans biologically.

That said, it does also exacerbate clinical depression, so this gets confusing quickly!

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#149

Post by eru »

fy20 wrote: post #146
rubicon33 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had depression for 20+ years and the best way I would describe it is like this: Think of that little "kick" you get when you think of something you want to do. Maybe you like eating ice cream, maybe you like playing tennis, whatever it is... that feeling, that subconscious little mental boost that gets you up off your ass, and moving... is completely absent in the depressed mind. That spark that initiates and su…

Does that apply to things you 'have' to do as well? I don't really like shopping for groceries, but I'd rather do that, than order take out that's expensive and probably not very healthy. If I'm going to cook something, I'd rather cook something with a different taste than eat pasta again. I don't really want to do laundry, but I do want to have clean clothes that don't smell. If I could afford to do so I wouldn't wo…

I'm not a doctor, but from what I've heard and seen: many depressed people manage to put up a good facade.

(Of course, that doesn't mean that putting up a facade means that you are depressed.

Also going out and doing stuff is probably better for you than sitting at home, no matter if you are depressed or not. And if that drive to make you go grocery shopping or meet people is less than healthy, that's still better than losing all motivation for everything, I guess?)

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#150

Post by rileymat2 »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #147

Case size 14, control size 15. It's 2021; you shouldn't be able to publish a psychology result with statistics this weak.

I am curious what the proper size group is for such dramatic results to make it publishable? The results are quite dramatic, it is not a slim success.
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