Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study • Hacker News Board

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#71

Post by jcims » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 3:39 AM UTC

carabiner wrote: post #66

jcims wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this is an enhancement to an existing therapy. Depending on where you are in the world and the healthcare providers you have access to, the existing therapy called Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) may be an option.

Some TMS clinics are offering the SAINT protocol off-label. Not covered by insurance of course, supposedly runs around $6k.

There's a used TMS machine on ebay for $8k (and $70k) and clinical instruction videos on YouTube. Could be a good side hustle haha.

Unfortunately for SAINT it looks like you also need fMRI to correctly target the therapy...that's going to be a bit tougher to DIY.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#72

Post by cowpig » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 3:41 AM UTC

mlyle wrote: post #10

cowpig wrote: post #6

There are surely enough trials on depression per year that a result with 15 participants in the treatment group is to small to start bringing this to public attention? With a sample size this small I don't think it should be in the news at all

Small sample size, but: - Building upon mounting evidence of TMS efficacy in patients with severe, intractable depression. - 79%-- 11 of the 14-- no longer meeting diagnostic criteria for depression after treatment, and another was improved. - It's an RCT showing both massive efficacy and statistical significance. (2 of 14 in placebo group entered remission). I know we like to chant "more n"-- but this is very likely…

To be clear: I definitely think this kind of study is valuable, I don't think it should be in the news, unless the headline is something like "small study shows promise"

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#73

Post by m1117 » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 3:43 AM UTC

Daunk wrote: post #26

I've been dealing with depression for over 15 years. I can only hope that this becomes available to the masses.

Pretty sure it's already available.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#74

Post by arcticfox » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 3:45 AM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #44

webinvest wrote: post #2

> “The treatment, known as Stanford accelerated intelligent neuromodulation therapy (SAINT) or simply Stanford neuromodulation therapy, is an intensive, individualized form of transcranial magnetic stimulation. In the study, remission typically occurred within days and lasted months. The only side effects were temporary fatigue and headaches.” > “Twenty-nine people with treatment-resistant depression participated in…

I wonder what results you'd get if you tried a treatment which was literal torture...? Eg. "We'll poke this red hot poker into you 10 times to cure your depression"... Many painful screams later... "So, is the depression any better now, or should we do more treatment?".. "Yes, yes, I'm pretty much cured!". How can we be sure that this 'torture effect' isn't whats being measured here? Especially when the treatment app…

Wouldn't the patients just opt out of the trial rather than continue and lie to the researchers? Nobody's being forced into it

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#75

Post by sjg007 » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 3:48 AM UTC

Awesome. I think there’s a risk of inducing mania but it really looks like we have a lot of new treatments for depression that are safe and effective.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#76

Post by tombert » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 3:49 AM UTC

Huh, I've been talking to my therapist about my antidepressants not being terribly effective anymore. Is there a way to sign up for a clinical trial for this?

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#77

Post by tombert » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 3:51 AM UTC

m1117 wrote: post #73

Daunk wrote: post #26

I've been dealing with depression for over 15 years. I can only hope that this becomes available to the masses.

Pretty sure it's already available.

How so? Where do you register?

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#78

Post by mlyle » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 3:51 AM UTC

cowpig wrote: post #72

mlyle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small sample size, but: - Building upon mounting evidence of TMS efficacy in patients with severe, intractable depression. - 79%-- 11 of the 14-- no longer meeting diagnostic criteria for depression after treatment, and another was improved. - It's an RCT showing both massive efficacy and statistical significance. (2 of 14 in placebo group entered remission). I know we like to chant "more n"-- but this is very likely…

To be clear: I definitely think this kind of study is valuable , I don't think it should be in the news, unless the headline is something like "small study shows promise"

In fairness, "in the news" here is a bulletin from Stanford Medicine about research at Stanford.

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#79

Post by ajaxexact » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 3:52 AM UTC

pcurve wrote: post #57

“I don’t procrastinate anymore,” he added. “I’m sleeping better. I completely quit alcohol. I’m walking my dog and playing the guitar again, for nothing more than the sheer joy of it.” Most importantly, he said, “I’m remaining positive and being respectful of others. These are big changes in my life.” Serious question: are these typical signs of depression? Now I'm wondering if I have depression.

If you feel persistently low, tired, unhappy, or unable to do things then it's a real possibility.

The PHQ-9 is a pretty standard depression screening questionnaire that you can complete in a minute or two. https://www.mdcalc.com/phq-9-patient-health-questionnaire-9

Re: Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

#80

Post by mlyle » Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 3:55 AM UTC

loceng wrote: post #27

mlyle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small sample size, but: - Building upon mounting evidence of TMS efficacy in patients with severe, intractable depression. - 79%-- 11 of the 14-- no longer meeting diagnostic criteria for depression after treatment, and another was improved. - It's an RCT showing both massive efficacy and statistical significance. (2 of 14 in placebo group entered remission). I know we like to chant "more n"-- but this is very likely…

I'd be curious to know if any other executive/mental function changed, something that may not have been measured before or after the treatment; not feeling depressed, self-reported, is not necessarily the same as having the same functionality as someone who's not depressed.

> not feeling depressed, self-reported, is not necessarily the same as having the same functionality as someone who's not depressed.

Sure, though one aspect of the depression scales is (self-reported) ability to go about daily activities, get normal sleep, etc-- not just "feeling down". That is, it's self-reported information on functionality, too.