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I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

elliott.computer

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Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#261

Post by throwawaycities »

y4mi wrote: post #235
throwawaycities wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But whatever vendor you choose is a centralized vendor. Unless your using an IP address for you website, your domain name is registered through a centralized registrar. The DNS architecture/protocol itself is centralized as it is controlled by ICANN.

You have either no clue how DNS works or are entirely out of your depth wrt the definition of de-/centralization..

ICANN has an entire dispute resolution set up for businesses to use to take away domain names from users.

Local laws do not apply, there is no independent or impartial court, it is entirely centralized decision making by ICANN if they will take away your domain name and give it to someone else. It is exactly the same as when Twitter recently took away @metaverse handle from a active user and gave it to Facebook. At least in the case of Twitter when faced With user backlash and public support they reversed their decision and took @metaverse back from Facebook and returned it to the user. In practice ICANN is even more centralized than Twitter, because ICANN isn’t accountable to its users.

It’s clear you don’t know how ICANN words, and are entirely out of your depth wrt the definition of de/centralized. You likely also have a conflict of interest.

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#262

Post by throwawaycities »

acdha wrote: post #187
throwawaycities wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But whatever vendor you choose is a centralized vendor. Unless your using an IP address for you website, your domain name is registered through a centralized registrar. The DNS architecture/protocol itself is centralized as it is controlled by ICANN.

> your domain name is registered through a centralized registrar. The DNS architecture/protocol itself is centralized as it is controlled by ICANN. There are tons of registrars and DNS is even more decentralized — it’s not like .ru has the same operators as .us or .aws. The key question is how many parties can limit you. The DNS roots are stable and widely cached, so you don’t have bottlenecks based on those. Once yo…

> There are tons of registrars

But those registrars only exist at the discretion of a single centralized authority (ICANN)

It doesn’t matter which registrar you use, ICANN can always take away your domain name and give it to someone else, no laws apply to protect your domain it is all subject to ICANN and their decision. They have taken away 10’s of registered thousands of domain names.

Alternatively there is no centralized authority that can take away a decentralized domain name such as ENS.

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#263

Post by acdha »

throwawaycities wrote: post #262
acdha wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your domain name is registered through a centralized registrar. The DNS architecture/protocol itself is centralized as it is controlled by ICANN. There are tons of registrars and DNS is even more decentralized — it’s not like .ru has the same operators as .us or .aws. The key question is how many parties can limit you. The DNS roots are stable and widely cached, so you don’t have bottlenecks based on those. Once yo…

> There are tons of registrars But those registrars only exist at the discretion of a single centralized authority (ICANN) It doesn’t matter which registrar you use, ICANN can always take away your domain name and give it to someone else, no laws apply to protect your domain it is all subject to ICANN and their decision. They have taken away 10’s of registered thousands of domain names. Alternatively there is no cent…

ICANN controls the root name servers but it’s an international organization with bylaws and governance involving a number of parties around the world. They can’t force a registrar to transfer your domain without following a formal process, and misuse of what power they have would have significant consequences since they depend on cooperation.

ENS is based on Ethereum, which is controlled by a smaller number of people and has already had one case where they rewrote history when it was financially advantageous. There is no reason to think that in a hypothetical future where ENS came to matter to anyone the same pressures wouldn’t apply because the critical flaw for ENS is the same one preventing popular use of blockchains in general: there’s no way to recover from mistakes or abuse. This is not an idle concern: domain theft happens regularly and there’s a process for recovering your domain:

https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/documentation-is-key-...

If ENS became popular there’s no chance that the same problem wouldn’t occur, and the value of a domain and risk to the public means that people would not accept the answer that the attacker won for all time. Something would happen - whether that’s the Ethereum developers rewriting history again, a global block or override list, or something else.

As a simple learning example, imagine that the Chinese government got the keys for Taiwanese government in a hack or someone stole the keys for Amazon. Do you think that the ENS community’s response would be to say there’s nothing to be done and Amazon should rebrand, or that anyone would continue to use ENS if they did?

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#264

Post by zelphirkalt »

dxbydt wrote: post #96

I made my first "professional" web0 page 25 years ago. I made twenty of them, in fact. Each of the 20 webpages belonged to a Computer Science professor in the CS department I was in. I got paid a grand total of $800 to do that. Of that, I paid $200 in rent to my landlord for my room and utilities. My monthly groceries were always under $100. The remaining $500 I diligently sent home to my poor mom & dad back in India…

Aaaaand it's gone! 404 for me.

Hm. What happened? Did someone realize, that there is traffic on that page and took it down?

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#265

Post by throwawaycities »

acdha wrote: post #263
throwawaycities wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are tons of registrars But those registrars only exist at the discretion of a single centralized authority (ICANN) It doesn’t matter which registrar you use, ICANN can always take away your domain name and give it to someone else, no laws apply to protect your domain it is all subject to ICANN and their decision. They have taken away 10’s of registered thousands of domain names. Alternatively there is no cent…

ICANN controls the root name servers but it’s an international organization with bylaws and governance involving a number of parties around the world. They can’t force a registrar to transfer your domain without following a formal process, and misuse of what power they have would have significant consequences since they depend on cooperation. ENS is based on Ethereum, which is controlled by a smaller number of people…

> ICANN controls the root name servers but it’s an international organization with bylaws and governance...

All true, but doesn’t make ICANN not centralized.

>ENS is based on Ethereum…and has already had one case where they rewrote history when it was financially advantageous.

There is a difference between rewritten and forked. Nothing was rewritten, both chains exist. Similarly there is no centralized authority that prevents an individual or group from forking the blockchain, nor any central authority forcing users to the new fork.

Alternatively, you won’t have much success attempting to “fork” your own .com TLD because of conflict with DNS. Realistically even ENS potentially faces this risk with .eth conflicting with DNS at some point.

But as it relates to ENS on EVM, if you are suggesting Amazon could in anyway force the take over of Amazon.eth from another owner on the blockchain, it is not possible, not even the ENS DAO has that power. This may be a result of your misunderstanding that Ethereum was previously “rewritten”.

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#266

Post by throwawaycities »

tehjoker wrote: post #162
throwawaycities wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DNS/root servers/ICANN are fundamental architecture of the internet that are centralized. People either forget, or weren’t around, when domains names were thought of and treated much like NFTs are today. There was a small group of early adopters but for the most part big business considered websites/domain names something akin to digital monopoly money, just a play thing with no relation to the real world. In the ear…

DNS fulfills a direct consumer need -- to more easily access a website. I'm hard pressed to say what a claim on a JPEG fulfills. Sounds like it makes the world harder to navigate for consumers, like a tollbooth on a public park.

I didn’t say DNS didn’t fulfill a need, it just does so in a centralized way that is now antiquated by newer technology that removes the need for ICANN to act as the centralized authority.

Also an NFT is token standard, sure it can be used as a fungible record of ownership, but your framing as if all NFTs are is a “claim on a JPEG” shows either a lack of understanding or a common Luddite attitude toward the technology. My NFTs work perfectly fine as domain names, far from a JPEG.

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#267

Post by endisneigh »

throwawaycities wrote: post #260
endisneigh wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing stopping you from hosting a functional website from an IP address.

And there is nothing stopping businesses from running their websites from IP addresses, and yet ICANN developed rules that allow them to take away domain names and give them to businesses. It is not at all unlike Twitter taking away the handle @metaverse from a user and giving it to Facebook, it was only the result of user backlash/public support Twitter reversed its decision.

There’s no connection between what I said and what you’re saying.

What’s your point? My point is that the internet is decentralized but many websites use centralized services as there’s some value in doing so.

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#268

Post by y4mi »

throwawaycities wrote: post #261
y4mi wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have either no clue how DNS works or are entirely out of your depth wrt the definition of de-/centralization..

ICANN has an entire dispute resolution set up for businesses to use to take away domain names from users. Local laws do not apply, there is no independent or impartial court, it is entirely centralized decision making by ICANN if they will take away your domain name and give it to someone else. It is exactly the same as when Twitter recently took away @metaverse handle from a active user and gave it to Facebook. At l…

You really have no idea how DNS works then.

ICANN can do that for .com domains, because that's their TLD. They cannot do it for the TLDs they've already sold/aren't responsible for.

You can even purchase your own TLD from ICANN if you've got the money and create whatever domain names you want.

Maybe stop talking about stuff you've no clue about, otherwise you'll forever be a dunning kruger person

Re: I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

#269

Post by kaz_sadeghi »

dwild wrote: post #222
fb03 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a backend engineer by trade, and I have been trying to learn me a little React because I decided I should learn new tech (not the stuff I use on a daily basis, which is Python) on side projects. So the backend is being done in Rust, and frontend is using React. I had this moment where I thought "well, I need Typescript, because I want nicely typed interfaces and contracts, and I need React". Turns out it's not e…

> Turns out it's not easy like that. To cobble everything together you need a proper template for webpack. and there's Babel and that also needs to be caressed in the right React-y way. You can't just "hop in". I would tell the exact same story if I was to decide to use Python as backend, just with different technologies. Maybe you just tried to do too much too quick. I can build a Python script, just like you can pr…

You _can_ just hop in with Flask. That's kind of the main selling point.
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