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Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#481

Post by FDSGSG »

Nextgrid wrote: post #93
csunbird wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry, but what? You can just remove the association of the eSIM with the telephone and activate it in another. There is no lock in here.

Sorry, you can't. The e-SIM provisioning process is under the control of the carrier. They give you a QR code (or SM-DP string) which you scan/enter, your phone then contacts the carrier and after some back and forth acquires cryptographic keys which are stored in the eSIM chip. There is no way to extract these cryptographic keys and enter them into another phone. Instead, you have to repeat the whole process and get…

> Instead, you have to repeat the whole process and get a new QR code from the carrier

Utter nonsense. There's no technical requirement to get a new QR code, this is up to the carrier.

Why are there so many people spreading straight up lies in this thread?

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#482

Post by throw0101a »

fomine3 wrote: post #469
throw0101a wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I share your concerns but at the same time I think, why would we even need a SIM? In the Before Times: handy for travel. Having a (e)SIM for your personal number (but perhaps disable data), and when you arrive at your destination just pop in a new physical SIM for local data (and calling). > We don't have SIMs for ADSL or Fiber internet? I wish we did. At least for ADSL you can use PPPoE to login into a network wit…

AFAIK PON based system needs encryption/decryption by ONU because it separates single fiber passively so downlink can be tapped. Encryption key is burned to each ONU.

(All? Most? Many?) ONTs support 802.1X for authenticating network access, which supports EAP. And EAP-SIM is one available mechanism, though usually used on the wireless side of networking.

In Canada, Bell had their "Home Hub 3000" and plenty of folks took out the optic and put it in their own hardware; this possibility was 'discontinued' with the Home Hub 4000, which no longer has a removable optic. There is nothing inherent on the ONT that limits connectivity except the arbitrary telco design choices.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#483

Post by hakfoo »

deep-root wrote: post #266
Nbox9 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity A SIM is not a embodiment of an iPhone’s identity. Maybe it was in the 90s, but today it’s so much more. The SIM is more like your iPhone’s credentials for accessing one network. You can change SIMs, change your access token for one network, but you are making no bigger impact on your phone’s “identity” than if you were to change Wi-Fi networks. List of Id…

They were correct. They're saying your phone service identity (I am X number on Y network plan). Not your personal identity (pictures of your kids and passwords). Today if your phone fails, you can pop a sim in another phone and regain your phone service identity within minutes. No SIM, it could take days or even weeks.

If I want to replace my phone now, I can pop the SIM card out of the slot, and slide it into the new device. Takes 3 minutes and importantly requires no contact with the carrier.

With an eSIM, I'd have to-- at the very least-- do some sort of migration process through a carrier-provided resource. Maybe it's a web-based thing where I can sign in to their site on the old phone and get a QR code to scan on the new one, but I'd be unsurprised if at least some carriers say "gotta come into a store" or put up some sketchy "for your protection" roadblocks. This could be technical incompetence or a dark pattern, but I'm sure they want to keep anything related to bring-your-own-device to be a bit arcane and scary, to encourage customers to buy through the carrier.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#484

Post by unobatbayar »

DonHopkins wrote: post #268
kaba0 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can still smash your phone with a brick if you really want to.

The terrible user interfaces of many iPhone apps make me want to do just that.

You should try Android. Their best apps are one tenth of worst iPhone apps.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#486

Post by venamresm__ »

jbirer wrote: post #425

Provider lock in 3..2...

This was discussed in the specs of the latest version (v3), and actually Apple and other GSMA members stood in the way of this. AT&T and Verizon wanted to include lock as part of the specs but it didn't pass and they were accused of collusion: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/20/apple-verizon-att-switc... So in summary, it's the opposite of a carrier lock.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#487

Post by venamresm__ »

arepublicadoceu wrote: post #398

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I feel that this is a first step to a complete power grab over telecoms from the phone manufactures. 1. Step one: Force everyone to use eSim 2. Step two: Bundle a internet plan through Apple One or whatever Google offers. 3. Step three: Move further to a world where all our entertainment and access to services goes through two players: Apple and Google. I'm pretty sure in 10 years t…

You're misinterpreting what eSIMs are if you think they provide a new way to connect to the network, they don't. They are simply a new sim form factor, so step two in your analysis is unrealistic as the mobile equipment is still owned by mobile operators. There's literally no difference with current sim other than the sim being embedded in the device and the users being allowed to install multiple profiles on it.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#488

Post by herunan »

venamresm__ wrote: post #487
arepublicadoceu wrote: post #398

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I feel that this is a first step to a complete power grab over telecoms from the phone manufactures. 1. Step one: Force everyone to use eSim 2. Step two: Bundle a internet plan through Apple One or whatever Google offers. 3. Step three: Move further to a world where all our entertainment and access to services goes through two players: Apple and Google. I'm pretty sure in 10 years t…

You're misinterpreting what eSIMs are if you think they provide a new way to connect to the network, they don't. They are simply a new sim form factor, so step two in your analysis is unrealistic as the mobile equipment is still owned by mobile operators. There's literally no difference with current sim other than the sim being embedded in the device and the users being allowed to install multiple profiles on it.

I don’t think they were assuming eSIMs provide a new type of connectivity. I think they were referring to the fact that these embedded SIMs are more integrated into the device and therefore physically agnostic to the mobile operator of choice. This would make switching from e.g. Verizon to Apple like switching from from Netflix to Disney+ – much easier since it’s fully software-based. For Apple that would be easy to bundle with the rest of their services. Yet another thing that will retain customers in their ecosystem.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#489

Post by DonHopkins »

unobatbayar wrote: post #484
DonHopkins wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The terrible user interfaces of many iPhone apps make me want to do just that.

You should try Android. Their best apps are one tenth of worst iPhone apps.

J2ME was so bad that it once made me throw my Sony Ericsson soap bar shaped cell phone down on the floor so hard in furious anger and frustration that I smashed it, and it felt so wonderful, and was well worth it.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#490

Post by venamresm__ »

herunan wrote: post #488
venamresm__ wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're misinterpreting what eSIMs are if you think they provide a new way to connect to the network, they don't. They are simply a new sim form factor, so step two in your analysis is unrealistic as the mobile equipment is still owned by mobile operators. There's literally no difference with current sim other than the sim being embedded in the device and the users being allowed to install multiple profiles on it.

I don’t think they were assuming eSIMs provide a new type of connectivity. I think they were referring to the fact that these embedded SIMs are more integrated into the device and therefore physically agnostic to the mobile operator of choice. This would make switching from e.g. Verizon to Apple like switching from from Netflix to Disney+ – much easier since it’s fully software-based. For Apple that would be easy to…

Disclaimer: I've been working in the eSIM ecosystem for the past 3 years.

The integration in the device doesn't really mean the device manufacturer has more control on the sim, far from it. The integration is limited to the interface needed to download/enable/disable profiles, what's referred to as an LPA (local profile assistant). Still OP is misinterpreting that this somehow gives the ability to device manufacturer, which are not network providers, to somehow be able to now step into the telco space. The reality is far from it and Apple cannot provide such service. What they do on the field though, is market devices are easier to use and follow up with mobile operators so that the integration is seamless.

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