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Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

plymouth.ac.uk

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Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#41

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mherdeg wrote: post #9
sandworm101 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In modern schools, most any deviation from prescribed behavior is considered "rule breaking". A kid playing a game they way they want to play it, rather than the way they were taught to play it, is a disruptive kid that needs correction by peers or authority figures.

I've seen this! When the toddler plays an iPad game he likes to start by "failing" (choosing the wrong option, deliberately crashing a toy car, doing nothing at all) and watching what happens. It looks to me like he's basically experimenting - trying things and watching what happens. I generally just let him try and fail (and discuss what happened with him) and after about 1-2 minutes he tries the "right" thing becau…

A toddler probably gets as much 'reward' from the Skinner box like iPad games on failure as on success. It makes a noise, flashes an interesting image.

The reason to 'succeed' an older child is to satisfy the conditions and progress in the game, a toddler maybe gets equal reward (at first) because they don't see why driving further is success.

Once the novelty of the first set of sounds and images is exhausted then interaction products new images and so greater 'reward'.

Doesn't seem useful behaviourally?

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#42

Post by rootusrootus »

OtomotO wrote: post #37
sandworm101 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In modern schools, most any deviation from prescribed behavior is considered "rule breaking". A kid playing a game they way they want to play it, rather than the way they were taught to play it, is a disruptive kid that needs correction by peers or authority figures.

You're talking about US modern schools, right? (Genuine question)

Not my school in the US.

Cynical me thinks there is no actual underlying experience driving the observation.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#43

Post by thro1 »

thro1 wrote: post #3

It's: challenging the kids with rule breaking (that's normal kids, not rule breakers ). About true, challenging rule breaker see the movie: "System Crasher" (2019).

Downvoted ? - the title is clickbait: nor the kids are challenging (hard cases), nor challenging others (only confronting, maybe to help), neither they are challenged at any point to do that - but if they do, they are not rule breakers but 'rule breakers' - keepers and conformists to what they been taught (the only rule breaking are the researchers, their challenge is to mess with kids, not being challenged self).

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#44

Post by dylan604 »

swayvil wrote: post #31
mherdeg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this! When the toddler plays an iPad game he likes to start by "failing" (choosing the wrong option, deliberately crashing a toy car, doing nothing at all) and watching what happens. It looks to me like he's basically experimenting - trying things and watching what happens. I generally just let him try and fail (and discuss what happened with him) and after about 1-2 minutes he tries the "right" thing becau…

It's like that with Lego. Some people grab the bricks, mess around, create and destroy chaotically, explore. But then there's this whole other culture. They create the thing described by the directions, step by step.

I was a combo of both. I would build the thing one time when it was brand new. It was a good way of learning how some pieces could be combined and be used in designs. After that, all the pieces got placed into big buckets for later assembly into whatever. I've never had a lego "build" last longer than a few days.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#45

Post by fnord77 »

> The children were each taught to play a block sorting game – with half taught to sort the blocks by colour, and half taught to sort them by shape. They were then put into pairs, with one playing the game and the other observing.

At an early stage of development, could this sort of study introduce some sort of neurosis or pathology into these children's behaviors?

My "this might not be harmless" radar is pinging

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#46

Post by fnord77 »

zomglings wrote: post #19
hirundo wrote: post #4

I saw the new James Bond movie last night and hated the ending. Not so much because it wasn't appropriate, as because they broke the rule. And not so much the rule, as the Prime Directive. My reaction felt like a kind of disgust. At the rule breakers. The same kind I'd feel at a cheater in a game. But of course there's no sense in which I'd been cheated. This kind of surprise is meat and potatoes to almost any fictio…

What rule? I didn't watch the movie nor do I know much about James Bond beyond watching a few of the films over the past few decades.

an event happens that terminates the series for good.

though I bet in 4 years the producers will change their mind and retcon the series back to life.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#47

Post by conductr »

fnord77 wrote: post #46
zomglings wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What rule? I didn't watch the movie nor do I know much about James Bond beyond watching a few of the films over the past few decades.

an event happens that terminates the series for good. though I bet in 4 years the producers will change their mind and retcon the series back to life.

Current Hollywood would just start remaking them. No time/budget for new scripts.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#48

Post by conductr »

newsclues wrote: post #20
hanoz wrote: post #18

The scenario descibed in the article isn't children challenging a non conformist for stepping out of line, or using a non standard technique, the children are correcting, perhaps helping, someone who appears to be getting something completely and utterly wrong.

Children teach others. They are learning through the teaching process.

Exactly. They’re mimicking how they were taught. My 3yo is all about “let me show you” because that’s exactly what we say when we teach him something/how to use a new toy. When a guest comes over, it’s his turn to show off his new toy and teach them how to use it.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#50

Post by itronitron »

carom wrote: post #12

Tangentially related, I've looked for research in the past on what compels people to report rule breakers. I find it super interesting that people want to get other people in trouble over (often) things that don't negatively affect them, but instead are just "the rules".

>> what compels people to report rule breakers

they still believe there will be consequences to the rule breakers as a result of reporting them...

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