Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

plymouth.ac.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 74 posts

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#11

Post by hosh »

sandworm101 wrote: post #8
TameAntelope wrote: post #7

Eh, the study calls "rule breakers" the children who seemingly make mistakes applying a set of rules to a puzzle. These aren't kids acting out in class and being put back in line by their peers, it's two kids doing some pair programming. Am I "confronting" my coworker when I suggest a different way to loop than the one they implemented? Nothing wrong with the study, just saying the word "challenging" is not used here…

In modern schools, most any deviation from prescribed behavior is considered "rule breaking". A kid playing a game they way they want to play it, rather than the way they were taught to play it, is a disruptive kid that needs correction by peers or authority figures.

Which is a contrast to say, watching what Daniel Tiger’s Neighborhood teaches 2-4 year olds about conflict resolution, taking turns, and finding ways to play together.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#12

Post by carom »

Tangentially related, I've looked for research in the past on what compels people to report rule breakers. I find it super interesting that people want to get other people in trouble over (often) things that don't negatively affect them, but instead are just "the rules".

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#13

Post by hosh »

mherdeg wrote: post #9
sandworm101 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In modern schools, most any deviation from prescribed behavior is considered "rule breaking". A kid playing a game they way they want to play it, rather than the way they were taught to play it, is a disruptive kid that needs correction by peers or authority figures.

I've seen this! When the toddler plays an iPad game he likes to start by "failing" (choosing the wrong option, deliberately crashing a toy car, doing nothing at all) and watching what happens. It looks to me like he's basically experimenting - trying things and watching what happens. I generally just let him try and fail (and discuss what happened with him) and after about 1-2 minutes he tries the "right" thing becau…

My 1 yr old does this all the time when exploring the world. I have had to tell my 17-year old stepchild who easily gets down on failures, that my role as a parent isn’t to protect my children from failure, but to protect them from catastrophic failure (ones that cannot be easily recoverable from).

Myself, it isn’t something I learned until I was an adult, encountering “growth mindset” and practicing martial arts. Failures are the foundation of growth and anti-fragility, and works better if you can un-identify with it.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#14

Post by ckqyt »

carom wrote: post #12

Tangentially related, I've looked for research in the past on what compels people to report rule breakers. I find it super interesting that people want to get other people in trouble over (often) things that don't negatively affect them, but instead are just "the rules".

If someone has no real talents apart from following and enforcing arbitrary rules, he/she can rise in the social hierarchy by virtue signaling and reporting others. We see this in many open source projects now.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#15

Post by [deleted] »

mherdeg wrote: post #9
sandworm101 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In modern schools, most any deviation from prescribed behavior is considered "rule breaking". A kid playing a game they way they want to play it, rather than the way they were taught to play it, is a disruptive kid that needs correction by peers or authority figures.

I've seen this! When the toddler plays an iPad game he likes to start by "failing" (choosing the wrong option, deliberately crashing a toy car, doing nothing at all) and watching what happens. It looks to me like he's basically experimenting - trying things and watching what happens. I generally just let him try and fail (and discuss what happened with him) and after about 1-2 minutes he tries the "right" thing becau…

[deleted]

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#16

Post by [deleted] »

mherdeg wrote: post #9
sandworm101 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In modern schools, most any deviation from prescribed behavior is considered "rule breaking". A kid playing a game they way they want to play it, rather than the way they were taught to play it, is a disruptive kid that needs correction by peers or authority figures.

I've seen this! When the toddler plays an iPad game he likes to start by "failing" (choosing the wrong option, deliberately crashing a toy car, doing nothing at all) and watching what happens. It looks to me like he's basically experimenting - trying things and watching what happens. I generally just let him try and fail (and discuss what happened with him) and after about 1-2 minutes he tries the "right" thing becau…

[deleted]

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#17

Post by tux3 »

carom wrote: post #12

Tangentially related, I've looked for research in the past on what compels people to report rule breakers. I find it super interesting that people want to get other people in trouble over (often) things that don't negatively affect them, but instead are just "the rules".

I suspect it stems from a feeling of fairness: I have to follow the rules, so how come you get away with doing whatever you want? That's intuitively not fair.

Now I don't agree with that from a consequentialist point of view, but I could understand the feeling.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#18

Post by hanoz »

The scenario descibed in the article isn't children challenging a non conformist for stepping out of line, or using a non standard technique, the children are correcting, perhaps helping, someone who appears to be getting something completely and utterly wrong.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#19

Post by zomglings »

hirundo wrote: post #4

I saw the new James Bond movie last night and hated the ending. Not so much because it wasn't appropriate, as because they broke the rule. And not so much the rule, as the Prime Directive. My reaction felt like a kind of disgust. At the rule breakers. The same kind I'd feel at a cheater in a game. But of course there's no sense in which I'd been cheated. This kind of surprise is meat and potatoes to almost any fictio…

What rule? I didn't watch the movie nor do I know much about James Bond beyond watching a few of the films over the past few decades.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#20

Post by newsclues »

hanoz wrote: post #18

The scenario descibed in the article isn't children challenging a non conformist for stepping out of line, or using a non standard technique, the children are correcting, perhaps helping, someone who appears to be getting something completely and utterly wrong.

Children teach others. They are learning through the teaching process.
Post reply on HN