Are jobs obsolete? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#151

Post by jbooth » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 6:56 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #136

jbooth wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare. It's a healthcare problem in education, healthcare costs are going up by 15% a year and that money isn't there. That's why you hear about teacher layoffs while your property taxes go up and think it's bullshit. And hang out in a ghetto sometime if you want to see what's teaching kids that crime is ok.

Healthcare may explain why we can't spend yet more than the more-we've-ever-spent-before we're currently spending, but it can't explain why we spend so much more and seem to be getting less and less. Really, very few of the problems we're facing can be explained by not spending enough; rather more can be explained by spending too much with no regard for what we get for our money, then letting people say "well, we jus…

It precisely explains why we're spending more and more and getting less and less.

Compound 15% out over 15 years.

Educational reform is a broad subject and there's lots of room for experimentation. I'm fine with properly implemented charter schools, especially for the "thousand laboratories" effect. I don't think that chanting "markets" like a religious incantation is particularly effective. But most importantly, don't underestimate the effect of that healthcare cost.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#152

Post by vladd » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 6:57 PM UTC

Iv wrote: post #143

nitrogen wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This high granularity of employment sounds like a terrible inefficiency. There are jobs that need to be done, but can't be, because they don't justify a full-time or part-time employee. There are people that need to work, but can't because much of the work that needs to be done is in chunks too small to occupy their time. Perhaps we need something like an exchange for labor, like a stock exchange meets a temp agency.…

Hello, I'm a freelancer. I'll do the job you want for 150% of my former salary, yet at a lower price that my boss sold it to you ! I wonder why everyone is not doing that... I cut the middle men, so that means I get to go to dinner with clients, I get to negotiate prices, I got to be friend with the CEO of the startup that employs me. I always suspected that the salary of a commercial was a high price for a very comf…

According to economics, companies exist when workers are able, together, to output more than the sum of their parts. More enough to compensate for the boss overhead, and then some. In fact, it's recommended to go indie if you're medium to strongly competent in a wide range of skills such as marketing, sales, programming and operations... But for most specialized workers, the company provides the collective which makes sure they can package their work together with others and sell it to the client as a final integrated product.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#153

Post by bradly » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 6:58 PM UTC

jbooth wrote: post #103

CWuestefeld wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama already suspended Saturday delivery. There was apparently a rogue delivery person four days ago, joyriding in the mail truck and asking me to sign for a delivery.

Sorry, my fault. They're going to end it soon, according to Obama's postmaster general and the legislation to do so is being filed by a democratic senator. http://www.businessinsider.com/say-goodbye-to-saturday-mail-... Point still stands that "fox news said this about obama" does not correlate at all to what he's thinking or even doing. In fact you can usually assume the opposite.

> They're going to end it soon.

That isn't exactly true. The Postmaster General has been trying to get Saturday delivery canceled for a while now, but congress has not been willing to let it happen.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#154

Post by ippisl » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 6:59 PM UTC

colanderman wrote: post #67

ippisl wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without some regulation , why would the work week become shorter ? for many people , working a 40 hour work week barely covers their expenses. why would they want to work less ?

I've always thought that a 30 hr work week should be regulated, forcing employees to demand higher wages in order to survive, forcing employers to raise wages, and forcing CEOs to be paid less , thus reducing the income gap.

Without a union , workers has almost no power in today's market.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#155

Post by jbooth » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 7:00 PM UTC

analyst74 wrote: post #144

jbooth wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the landlord can't afford mortgage, how they gonna lower the rent? Run that scenario forward a couple steps and you see the real looming problem.

keeping over-priced goods at inflated price using whatever means will never work out in the long term. that applies to real-estate too, which (the real-estate industry) seems to have become the driving economic sector in many countries, which I find funny. edit: and a note on why it's funny, the value of a property never changes, only the price. From an individual perspective, you can make money trading real-estate j…

Most economists consider deflationary spiral to be a nightmare scenario. See: Great Depression and Japan's lost decade.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#156

Post by jbooth » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 7:06 PM UTC

bradly wrote: post #153

jbooth wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, my fault. They're going to end it soon, according to Obama's postmaster general and the legislation to do so is being filed by a democratic senator. http://www.businessinsider.com/say-goodbye-to-saturday-mail-... Point still stands that "fox news said this about obama" does not correlate at all to what he's thinking or even doing. In fact you can usually assume the opposite.

> They're going to end it soon. That isn't exactly true. The Postmaster General has been trying to get Saturday delivery canceled for a while now, but congress has not been willing to let it happen.

So, the original contention was that Socialistobama would never, ever, ever consider reduction of service.

The truth is that his appointee is actively pursuing it. Regardless of whether Congress (ironically, mostly rural district republicans in congress) are impeding him as usual.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#157

Post by learc83 » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 7:10 PM UTC

ig1 wrote: post #8

efalcao wrote: post #5

It's very interesting to think about cases where digital darlings have "killed jobs." Before: Thousands of jobs all over the country working for the classified section of a newspaper. Marginally profitable business. After: Craigslist destroys that whole market. Tons of jobs lost and the revenues shift to one company. Hugely profitable business, but probably a smaller total market than used to exist with just newspape…

The revenue didn't shift to CL - for most categories CL is still free, the users of it are the ones who got to keep the money.

Exactly, and now those users are free to use that money to buy other goods or invest, creating more jobs to fill the vacuum left by newspaper layoffs.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#158

Post by MatthewPhillips » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 7:11 PM UTC

Iv wrote: post #143

nitrogen wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This high granularity of employment sounds like a terrible inefficiency. There are jobs that need to be done, but can't be, because they don't justify a full-time or part-time employee. There are people that need to work, but can't because much of the work that needs to be done is in chunks too small to occupy their time. Perhaps we need something like an exchange for labor, like a stock exchange meets a temp agency.…

Hello, I'm a freelancer. I'll do the job you want for 150% of my former salary, yet at a lower price that my boss sold it to you ! I wonder why everyone is not doing that... I cut the middle men, so that means I get to go to dinner with clients, I get to negotiate prices, I got to be friend with the CEO of the startup that employs me. I always suspected that the salary of a commercial was a high price for a very comf…

Your work now consists of your former job and being a salesman. That explains why everyone's not doing it.

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#159

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 7:14 PM UTC

orangecat wrote: post #142

colanderman wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought that a 30 hr work week should be regulated, forcing employees to demand higher wages in order to survive, forcing employers to raise wages, and forcing CEOs to be paid less , thus reducing the income gap.

"Reducing the income gap" is not an inherently good thing. If it is, you should be thrilled with the current economy: incomes for the rich have fallen more on a percentage basis than for the poor and middle class.

[deleted]

Re: Are jobs obsolete?

#160

Post by xxpor » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 7:15 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #104

dreamdu5t wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay... then what does the power structure of private property have to do with it? Unemployment is not necessitated by private property. Removing the power structure of property owners will not eliminate unemployment or cause people to become educated. This is what Jello implies, and it's naively incorrect. Come on, Jello openly professes these politics/ideas, I am not reading anything into the quote that isn't there…

[deleted]

That's not strictly true. In the 2 states I'm familiar with that have state income tax (New Jersey and Ohio), a HUGE proportion of the state budget goes to assistance for lower-income districts.