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Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

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Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#791
post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this doesn't reflect the standard spectrum of usage for the term. For instance, if you look up "atheism" in Merriam-Webster, the second definition is: "a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods" By that definition, a rock is not atheist since it has no philosophical or religious positions (ha, I hope so, at least). Honestly, I'm a little confused by…

> strict understanding Rather, a definition of atheist which allows rocks to be atheists by the fact that they lack philosophical positions is logically less strict, or weaker than a formulation that additionally requires the ability to hold such a position. A predicate which adds restrictions is stronger, which can have disadvantages. The weak definition lets me assign a value of true or false to is_atheist(P) for a…

> weak definition

Dictionary definitions are not meant to be combined like logical predicates. Rather, they provide a spectrum of possible meanings for a term. By recognizing multiple standard meanings for a word, I’m not tightening the space of entities that can match, but rather broadening it. But usage can still shift under a broader definition.

> atheist is the negation of theist

In one sense of the word, but that’s also the sense of the word in which you say that rocks are atheist, and probably not the (perfectly legitimate)sense of the word in which GP describes himself as “100% atheist.”

———

Taking a step back: is there any value in this line of inquiry other than semantics? I think so. It comes down to whether there is an active and lively philosophy of atheism in a positive sense, one that is chiefly distinguished by rejecting theism and building alternative moral, social, epistemological frameworks, but still fundamentally religious - a set of beliefs and practices and values for guiding one’s life, providing answers for the great questions.

I think this comes up because of the desire from some to make atheism seem essentially the default belief— no more notable than a lack of belief in fairies and elves. But in the world and culture most of us are embedded in, that’s just not accurate. It’s still a minority position, there are many important consequences to building one’s life on atheism vs theism, and there is an ongoing battle in the marketplace of ideas and the popular consciousness for each one. I think it’s galling to some to see atheism described as a philosophy or religion on the same “shelf” as theism, but practically speaking that’s what it amounts to for most people.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this align you to the teachings? How does this alignment manifest in your moment-to-moment experiences?

Great question. Briefly, the goal is to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, in thoughts, words, and deeds. In practice that generally means looking outwards, not being totally self-absorbed (which is my natural tendency), and treating people with kindness and compassion - choosing to see them in the best possible light. The scripture study and related discussion helps me identify the gap between the ideal version of mysel…

Does it include treating yourself with kindness and compassion? I would think that to hold the frequency of kindness you’d need to hold it toward yourself?

How does that work for you - when you are challenged?

Also, when you pray, what direction does your prayer go into? I mean literally - do you pray toward the sky, or in one of the four directions? Or inside, toward the center of your heart, where the feeling of love and tenderness manifest?

Lastly, I grew outside of religion, and I define Christian practice as the commitment to choose love and kindness, in my heart, and speak, think and act from that choice. How does that resonate with someone like you who has an informed and deep practice?

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say “God” - where do you perceive it to be? When you pray for example - do you pray toward a certain direction in space?

There is a direction of prayer, but Muslims do not conceive God to have dimensions, so He is not in any direction.

So literally, when you pray ( if you’re speaking from experience), where does your intention go?

If a prayer is an internal call, how is it directed?

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, it serves as a warning and a life long lesson. I was formally mormon and didn't get out because the thought of a all powerful man in the sky made me extra special was silly. I got out because I looked into the history of the church and found that the founder and his successors were obvious con-men. Like, so obvious that years of indoctrination ultimately gave way. Had the founder any moral character and I fran…

The translation of the Golden Plates has always struck me as insane. And that people would take a man at his word on all of the details… even more insane. > Smith said that he found the plates on September 22, 1823, on a hill near his home in Manchester, New York, after the angel Moroni directed him to a buried stone box. He said that the angel prevented him from taking the plates but instructed him to return to the…

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Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#795

Nothing. I am ignostic. An interesting benefit of this position is that when the religious folks in my extended family ask about my religion and I tell them I'm ignostic, they 100% of the time misinterpret that as 'agnostic'. For some reason they can totally accept this position, maybe they just figure I'll eventually come around. I do not disabuse them of this interpretation, because I avoid conflict. And religion,…

Ignosticism is the ultimate "I've had enough of this shit". I too take advantage of the hard of hearing to get on with my life both in peace and a sense of superiority.

This is the first time I've come across the term, and I'm a bit baffled by it.

It could be that my quick web search just turned up poor definitions, but if so, I'm hoping you'll correct me from your own understanding.

It sounds like it's saying the word "god" has no referent, that it's conceptually vacant. But it seems obvious to me that there are literally hundreds of concepts people do mean when they use the term, some of which cannot be vacant by definition (i.e., "that than which nothing greater can be conceived," because it's a definition that depends on being just within the vacant limits of understanding).

So what do you mean by it?

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#796
post #692
post #223

I am a practicing Catholic. I have four kids all under 7. My normal day consists of feeding them, bathing them, calming tantrums, losing my temper, getting bitter at my lack of time for hobbies, and growing resentful of my lack of time for reading the Bible, praying, etc. But then I remember that this is a true dying to self. Not only a dying to self, but a dying to the world too as each of these sacrifices, failures…

I can relate to your frustrations; what does the term "dying to self" mean to you? (I'm trying to understand the phrase, not questioning it)

I'm not GP but as I understand it most religions contain an idea that selflessness is the highest good that a person can attain. Further they often maintain that only by becoming truly selfless can you make your spirit one with God (I don't specifically mean the Christian God here, just the concept of God). Becoming truly self-less literally means eliminating the self and its wants and impulses (really what is meant by this is typically something like the ego). Such an elimination has been called a "dying to self" or a mortification.

I will say that in my experience acting in selfless ways is indeed the most spiritually fulfilling thing you can do, regardless of your specific theology. The paradox is that you have to really be selfless: if you have any expectation of a reward (even a spiritual one) then you are in fact still acting for your self. Consequently the only true source of selflessness is love for others that exceeds love for yourself. Cultivate such love and you can't go wrong.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#797

100% atheism. Was raised some kind of protestant I forget which one, and derived tremendous spiritual and psychological relief when I realized all of that was absolute nonsense at the age of 9. I knew I was gay at the time and wouldn't come out until I was 18 or so, but my life just got a lot easier when I removed religion completely. I also recall discovering increased moral agency -- as a Christian I had been taugh…

Raised Christian, became an atheist, then evaluated a bunch of religions for myself. Found Christianity to be the most historically and spiritually compelling but still didn’t believe. After feeling hollow and aimless for years I re-evaluated things, read about Jesus love for me. Really meditated on His perfect life, sacrifice on the cross, and resurrection. He died for me, in my place. It became personal. When I rea…

How can he die for you before you are even born? Would you truly be ok for the sin of Adam and Eve to be blamed on you from the day of your birth, simply because they were your ancestors, had Jesus not come along?

How is his being put to death a good thing, earning humans salvation all around, when two people eating an apple is bad enough to damn countless generations?

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#798

100% atheism. Was raised some kind of protestant I forget which one, and derived tremendous spiritual and psychological relief when I realized all of that was absolute nonsense at the age of 9. I knew I was gay at the time and wouldn't come out until I was 18 or so, but my life just got a lot easier when I removed religion completely. I also recall discovering increased moral agency -- as a Christian I had been taugh…

"100% atheism" isn't a spiritual practice. It's just the absence of belief in the existence of gods. A rock is 100% atheist, yet in all likelihood doesn't have spiritual practice. You can have a spiritual practice under the umbrella of atheism, as long as it doesn't involve any kind of belief in gods. Whatever that practice is, that practice isn't identified with the atheism itself.

It is not the absence of belief in gods, it's the positive belief there is no god who put us here for a higher mystical purpose and plan, from which important ethical conclusions can be derived as listed by GP.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what does that leave me with? Facts, logic, and evidence. Any religion that can give me solid evidence that the supernatural is real and exists would win me. None have succeeded (and I have had fun looking into a few). What tools would you use to prove supernatural claims?

Ultimately it depends on the claim, but the basis of it would that you'd have to be able to both test and repeatably reproduce whatever effect is claimed. For example, let's say the claim is "God will heal you if you pray to him". Ok, let's pray that someone is healed in the hospital. How about another? And another? Do those prayers fail? Why? The issue that one runs into is that the prayers will often fail and the a…

> Ultimately it depends on the claim, but the basis of it would that you'd have to be able to both test and repeatably reproduce whatever effect is claimed.

Can you explain further why this would be a good standard, or how it would help? I mean, suppose you were god (with the usual alleged attributes that generate this kind of issue). How would you make yourself repeatable or testable?

Prayer seems like one of the tests that you would propose. This seems to me to be a maybe not great test? Even we respond differently based on the situation. My kids pray to me for ice cream fairly regularly, for example, and sometimes they get it and sometimes they don't. (Sometimes they eat their dinner and haven't had more sweets than are good for them by my judgment; sometimes they're disobedient and annoying; sometimes I'm a first-rate bastard to my kids; and so on.) If god exists, I don't know that I would expect him/her/it to respond repeatably or to be testable, at least in that sense.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question. Briefly, the goal is to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, in thoughts, words, and deeds. In practice that generally means looking outwards, not being totally self-absorbed (which is my natural tendency), and treating people with kindness and compassion - choosing to see them in the best possible light. The scripture study and related discussion helps me identify the gap between the ideal version of mysel…

Does it include treating yourself with kindness and compassion? I would think that to hold the frequency of kindness you’d need to hold it toward yourself? How does that work for you - when you are challenged? Also, when you pray, what direction does your prayer go into? I mean literally - do you pray toward the sky, or in one of the four directions? Or inside, toward the center of your heart, where the feeling of lo…

> Does it include treating yourself with kindness and compassion?

Yes, definitely. I feel it's implicit in the 2nd great commandment ("Love thy neighbor as thyself") that we should treat ourselves with kindness, patience, compassion, etc. Humility is a good trait, but I don't think it e.g. means tearing oneself down - God has high expectations but also sees us as a work in progress, so that helps me feel love for myself despite the many flaws.

For praying, there's a lot of variety in my mode of prayer. Many prayers are purely in my heart/mind, while some are vocalized. If circumstances allow (such as during my morning personal prayer), I like to physically kneel down and close my eyes and speak out loud. For those prayers, I often naturally feel like I'm praying "upwards" if that makes sense.

> Lastly, I grew outside of religion, and I define Christian practice as the commitment to choose love and kindness, in my heart, and speak, think and act from that choice. How does that resonate with someone like you

My two cents: I like that emphasis on deliberately choosing goodness, and I believe that learning to choose good - and over time /becoming/ someone who chooses good more naturally - is one of the key reasons God went to all the trouble of giving us this life in the first place. :)

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