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Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

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Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#741

Post by PicassoCTs »

Im 100 % atheist, but i found the jewish faith pretty fascinating. Its one of the few religions, that besides indoctrination - encourage a hacker mentality. One is praised for studying the books and finding "workaround" that allow to "hack" the religious framework without repercussions by the comunity. It has also managed to thrive, timelessly in alot of hostile circumstances.

In my mind, while all religion might be nonsense, this model applied to science is a winning team. If its a hacker mentality though, then i guess this site will have to do as a spiritual practice. It spins fertilizer from thin air and sun, it has electrically charged stones from the dessert reciting prayers and preventing a world with billions from collapse.

That must be enough for spirituality.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#743

Post by Barrin92 »

ajuc wrote: post #724
Barrin92 wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>concept of original sin Personally as an atheist-ish / lapsed Catholic, original sin is just about the only thing I've never actually doubted, Chesterton put it very well: “Modern masters of science are much impressed with the need of beginning all inquiry with a fact. The ancient masters of religion were quite equally impressed with that necessity. They began with the fact of sin – a fact as practical as potatoes.…

The problem is that Catholics treat sin as a static field and any sane person treat it as an instance field. Why do we need to baptize infants? Because they have original sin. How could they get it if they haven't done anything? Because Adam and Eve sinned and their sin is shared with all of humanity. How are we responsible fot their sin? We aren't but God still had to kill himself to forgive us. Cause reasons. It ge…

> Why do we need to baptize infants? Because they have original sin. How could they get it if they haven't done anything?

Because the idea of original sin doesn't, or only superficially, has anything to do with wrongful acts. What the idea of original sin is about that humans, by their very nature and in their being are confronted with evil. Or if you want a secular version call it injustice, or the ethical and the unethical, but certainly I did not need Catholicism to see that humans are, by virtue of simply being human, not 'sinless'. If there was nothing to the idea of humans being sinful, then living a moral life would not be a struggle, we'd be 'divine' by nature and as Chesterton says just walking across the street rids most people of that idea very quickly.

>If it makes sense to you you probably never thought about it much.

Pretty much the other way around. When I was 15 it made less sense to me than it does now exactly because I hadn't thought about it much. Part of having a proper and mature understanding when arguing about religious issues is to learn to take things seriously and not as literally as many people do today.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#744

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

coryfklein wrote: post #511
sam0x17 wrote: post #233

100% atheism. Was raised some kind of protestant I forget which one, and derived tremendous spiritual and psychological relief when I realized all of that was absolute nonsense at the age of 9. I knew I was gay at the time and wouldn't come out until I was 18 or so, but my life just got a lot easier when I removed religion completely. I also recall discovering increased moral agency -- as a Christian I had been taugh…

I'll agree with the other comment that atheism – almost by definition – is not a spiritual practice. But I'll point out that the transition itself, from dogmatic religion to atheism, is almost always a highly spiritual experience. Having gone through this process myself years ago I can attest to this, while also I must give my strongest recommendation that you eventually begin looking for a spiritual practice. Organi…

Just wanted to second Sam Harris. Try his app “Waking Up” for a wealth of resources on different kinds of meditation for beginners and the experienced. It’s really just an audio library of incredibly useful guided meditations and discussions with leaders in meditation.

Meditating without any reference to religion or God is possible and you can change your experience in very meaningful ways.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#745

Post by hermitcrab »

criddell wrote: post #568
good8675309 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raised Christian, became an atheist, then evaluated a bunch of religions for myself. Found Christianity to be the most historically and spiritually compelling but still didn’t believe. After feeling hollow and aimless for years I re-evaluated things, read about Jesus love for me. Really meditated on His perfect life, sacrifice on the cross, and resurrection. He died for me, in my place. It became personal. When I rea…

I've never understood what part of the crucifixion was a sacrifice. Jesus is literally a god. He knew he would end up on the cross before he even took on human form. He could have left at any time. He can return any time he wants. And how can his death on the cross be actually considered a death? If he was dead, are we to understand that for those few days there was no god overlooking all of creation? It seems to me…

You are trying apply a rational argument to faith, which is inherently irrational.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#746

Post by kazinator »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #726
kazinator wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, it is really a word semantic point. If someone says that their spiritualism is atheism, they are just using the word atheism for something other than "non-belief in gods", like "non-belief in gods, in combination with some other kinds of beliefs". So, I am not tone deaf: I do hear that. Just let's use "atheism" right, too. But note that someone identifying as an atheist, but with spiritual beliefs, might no…

> Or "There is no such thing as god, but the world was clearly created". Oops again. Creation without a creator? Is it possible to has have a creator but that creator not to be a god? For example, if we are living inside a simulation created by a software engineer, is that engineer our god?

I would say that if you believe that we are living inside a simulation created by a software engineer, then I am not certain whether you are theist or atheist, but leaning toward theist.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#747

Post by sam0x17 »

koheripbal wrote: post #486
kazinator wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"100% atheism" isn't a spiritual practice. It's just the absence of belief in the existence of gods. A rock is 100% atheist, yet in all likelihood doesn't have spiritual practice. You can have a spiritual practice under the umbrella of atheism, as long as it doesn't involve any kind of belief in gods. Whatever that practice is, that practice isn't identified with the atheism itself.

This is an important point. Being atheist doesn't say anything about your beliefs in ethics or the nature of the universe. It's just the absence of some set of other beliefs.

It is quite possible to find the negation of belief in God itself be a spiritual/freeing experience, especially if this follows prior subjugation/belief in an organized religion. Relinquishing religion can itself be a "spiritual" experience precisely because of how shitty religions tend to be.

Also, many mathematicians find a spiritual purity in certain equations and proofs. There need not be anything religious about such an experience. Something can be "deep", completely devoid of the paranormal.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#748

Post by Clubber »

JackGreyhat wrote: post #721
skinkestek wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll find atheists hate each other as much as religious people. Maybe more.

Name one war, that has no religion involved.

>Name one war, that has no religion involved.

  US Revolutionary War
  War of 1812
  US Civil War
  Spanish American War
  WWI
  WWII
  Korean War
  Vietnam War
  GWI
  GWII
  WoT
Nearly all of them really. Wars are fought over resources and pride of leaders. Sometimes religion can be used as a recruiting tool, but the war isn't really about religion.

You can argue that since people who fight in wars have religious beliefs that religion is involved, but you can say the same things about sticks and shoes. I don't think that is a compelling argument.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#749

Post by sam0x17 »

kazinator wrote: post #503
koheripbal wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an important point. Being atheist doesn't say anything about your beliefs in ethics or the nature of the universe. It's just the absence of some set of other beliefs.

Moreover, it is really a word semantic point. If someone says that their spiritualism is atheism, they are just using the word atheism for something other than "non-belief in gods", like "non-belief in gods, in combination with some other kinds of beliefs". So, I am not tone deaf: I do hear that. Just let's use "atheism" right, too. But note that someone identifying as an atheist, but with spiritual beliefs, might no…

OP here. I am an atheist with zero spiritual beliefs in the sense you are talking about. When I say "spiritual" I mean "dopamine-inducing", full stop. There is some cool stuff in math, science and in our crude attempts at morality that can be seen as "deep"/"spiritual" in its poetic purity, but this can be appreciated completely devoid of any belief in any kind of higher power. That is what I'm referring to.

Re: Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

#750

Post by kazinator »

xupybd wrote: post #596
kazinator wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, it is really a word semantic point. If someone says that their spiritualism is atheism, they are just using the word atheism for something other than "non-belief in gods", like "non-belief in gods, in combination with some other kinds of beliefs". So, I am not tone deaf: I do hear that. Just let's use "atheism" right, too. But note that someone identifying as an atheist, but with spiritual beliefs, might no…

I'm not an atheist nor have I attempted to define what it means. So please know this is a genuine question. Does your definition mean the rejection of all spiritual or supernatural beings requires one to become hold views inline with existential nihilism?

Suppose that without supernatural beings, life has no meaning or value (taking that to be "existential nihilism").

If it is revealed to such a world that there are in fact supernatural beings, how does that create meaning and value?

And how do those supernatural beings derive meaning and value; don't they need another level of meta-supernatural beings?

I want everyone to have meaning; I don't want there to be supernatural beings which are kind of slaves to provide me with meaning by their existence, but are themselves starved of meaning since they have nothing more supernatural than themselves to believe in.

One useful definition of meaning is the evolution of possibilities. A situation of no meaning is one which is a dead end in terms of possibilities.

If the universe dies in a heat death, then at that point there are no future possibilities distinct from the current state, and so there is no more meaning.

There might be no permanent meaning; no value that will endure forever, but people can be content with the temporary meaning, in which they enjoy new experiences and explore new possibilities in any endeavor.

Human lives end come to an end on a time scale vastly shorter than the death of the universe, yet people are able to find meaning.

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