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Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

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Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#441
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand two weeks ago I tried to delete my GOG account which was a very annoying and unnecessarily complicated process. Companies just like to decide what is 'good for us', which ends up being what is good for their own metrics.

Is it unnecessarily complicated though? I feel like while “stop paying more” should be an easy process, “permanently lose access to a thing I already paid for” should be difficult in order to guard against unexpected things, since it is a potentially irreversible event with negative monetary consequences for the user.

Exactly. I found out that I can't remove games from my Steam account even if I want to. I can only hide them.

I figure that's intentional so people can't change their mind about games they've removed and give grief to Steam support. It also helps prevent accidental removal, or malicious removal (e.g. you're still logged in and your kid is upset with you and tries to remove your favorite Steam games from your account).

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have pointed to the fact that Ubisoft is using a separate chain, but I want to point out that even on Ethereum you're not guaranteed to have the kind of universal access that you want. Smart contracts are code, and an Ethereum contract can be coded to rely on a centralized service or to only allow selling through a specific marketplace. Additionally, even on Ethereum Ubisoft could monitor the sales and reject…

There's no commercial incentive for any other game to integrate with Ubisoft's NFTs. Doing so would be a pure act of charity with no upside to those companies, and with a ton of liability since Ubisoft would be allowed to mess with those NFTs which would now be part of the customer experience on a separate game What about bootstrapping a new game? If you were launching a new game and wanted to steal marketshare from…

> integrating their NFT's (if they are open and not in a closed ecosystem) would be beneficial

How so? It is just another way of giving away in-game content to attract new players. But it would be technically more complex and would make your game dependent on a market that is controlled by a competitive third party.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...up to an including the fact that if you get banned you...lose your NFTs." That cant be right, well Ubisoft could still fuck this up. I can sell my NFTs on marketplaces completely independent of ubisoft. Sure they could invalidate, not honor the NFTs, but i wouldnt expect them to do so unless criminal activity like money laundering is involved.

> I can sell my NFTs on marketplaces completely independent of ubisoft. Even on a public chain, this isn’t true. It’s shocking to me how many people in this space really don’t know the basics. An NFT is just a contract that implements ERC-721/ERC-1155. I can implement restrictions around the transfer functions however I like.

You're missing the point that this would motivate a marketplace where Ubisoft is not the only portal for these NFT-owned games. nftgamingportal.com could exist which accepts these NFTs (in addition to many others) despite whatever restrictions Ubisoft decides to impose (which they are free to do... they own the walled garden).

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...up to an including the fact that if you get banned you...lose your NFTs." That cant be right, well Ubisoft could still fuck this up. I can sell my NFTs on marketplaces completely independent of ubisoft. Sure they could invalidate, not honor the NFTs, but i wouldnt expect them to do so unless criminal activity like money laundering is involved.

> I can sell my NFTs on marketplaces completely independent of ubisoft. Even on a public chain, this isn’t true. It’s shocking to me how many people in this space really don’t know the basics. An NFT is just a contract that implements ERC-721/ERC-1155. I can implement restrictions around the transfer functions however I like.

Its on a public chain: https://tezos.com/ They should be using: https://assets.tqtezos.com/docs/token-contracts/fa2/2-fa2-nf...

True they could implement arbitrary restrictions.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have pointed to the fact that Ubisoft is using a separate chain, but I want to point out that even on Ethereum you're not guaranteed to have the kind of universal access that you want. Smart contracts are code, and an Ethereum contract can be coded to rely on a centralized service or to only allow selling through a specific marketplace. Additionally, even on Ethereum Ubisoft could monitor the sales and reject…

There's no commercial incentive for any other game to integrate with Ubisoft's NFTs. Doing so would be a pure act of charity with no upside to those companies, and with a ton of liability since Ubisoft would be allowed to mess with those NFTs which would now be part of the customer experience on a separate game What about bootstrapping a new game? If you were launching a new game and wanted to steal marketshare from…

I'm not sure I see how.

It would be more work and your new game would be subject to Ubisoft's whims. You're not getting any money from the existing NFTs, and you're not getting any money when people trade them. And the game-balance problems of trying to take an existing economy that's built around restrictions in another game, and then retrofitting that onto your economy without resulting in weird pay-to-win outcomes... oof, difficult problem.

If you want to bootstrap a new game that has a lot of content and freebees for new players, just give people a bunch of content, it's the same amount of work. Using Ubisoft's NFTs in your game still requires you to build the mechanics and still requires you to build all of the media assets around those NFTs. So you don't really get to skip anything, and now your digital assets/rewards are harder to balance.

And very importantly, you don't get any money out of it, Ubisoft gets money when you integrate their NFTs. I just don't see what the advantage would be.

----

Edit: Well, okay, after more thought I guess maybe carrying over progress in some limited ways, but... who really wants that, either as a game designer or as a player? Nobody really wants someone who started playing Call of Duty 10 years ago to go into a new game in a different genre already dominating everyone else in the game because of pay-to-win mechanics. That's frustrating for designers, but it's also frustrating for players who want to feel like they're starting out brand new games on equal footing with each other.

I want to stress again, we could already be doing this stuff today using OAUTH/account-imports, and we're mostly not outside of a few random, often very limited promotions; and I would suggest the reason is that it turns out there's not a lot of incentive for games made by separate companies to do a lot of integration with each other -- otherwise we'd already see it happening.

It's all well and good to talk about bringing your Magic cards over to another Magic game, but... it's kind of a weird theoretical problem that NFTs don't help with, because first of all Magic isn't something that just anyone can make a game around, it's still a copyrighted game. And if Wizards is the one making all of the legal Magic games, they can use a centralized service to make cards transfer between them (they could also use that service for games outside of their control, but at the very least they don't need a blockchain for a bunch of games that they exclusively own). But second of all outside of Magic, it doesn't make a ton of sense to try and bring your Magic cards into, say, Hearthstone (which again you couldn't do in a literal sense because the card art and text is all copyrighted and Blizzard would get sued if they tried to import your Magic Online library). Hearthstone has separate mechanics, what would the mapping even be?

A lot of these collectable games like Magic/Hearthstone are collectible first and foremost not primarily for gameplay reasons, but as a way to make companies money by encouraging you to buy cards, and Hearthstone ends up incentivizing new players by giving a lot of free stuff away and then pulling players into a store ecosystem that they control. They don't have a lot of financial reason to make it so that giving Wizards money makes your Hearthstone experience better. Even a very small indie game with this monetization model would probably just prefer to give you bonus packs whenever you refer a friend or if you sign up during a promo period.

It's maybe possibly a nice idea to have some kind of artifact of achievement in a game that lives beyond that game, but it's not an idea that NFTs seem to really help with or encourage.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...up to an including the fact that if you get banned you...lose your NFTs." That cant be right, well Ubisoft could still fuck this up. I can sell my NFTs on marketplaces completely independent of ubisoft. Sure they could invalidate, not honor the NFTs, but i wouldnt expect them to do so unless criminal activity like money laundering is involved.

People have pointed to the fact that Ubisoft is using a separate chain, but I want to point out that even on Ethereum you're not guaranteed to have the kind of universal access that you want. Smart contracts are code, and an Ethereum contract can be coded to rely on a centralized service or to only allow selling through a specific marketplace. Additionally, even on Ethereum Ubisoft could monitor the sales and reject…

Just to be clear, they are not using their own chain, its on https://tezos.com/

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#447
"Blockchains don't solve this as Ubisoft can control (the view around, as well as other parts) this new database however they like." But why does this have to be Ubisoft's blockchain? Why does Ubisoft get to be the only portal in this scenario.

I expect NFT-represented games/content will find new portals which will permit access to the underlying IP regardless of who issued them (as they would meet some standard the same as ERC721 represents a generalized NFT).

I think it's interesting that all of the (*most vocal) blockchain nay-sayers do not appear to "zoom out" quite far enough. Or, arguing in good faith, they see some way this does not work that I'm not seeing but are getting stuck at the earlier points without fulling describing their criticism.

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...up to an including the fact that if you get banned you...lose your NFTs." That cant be right, well Ubisoft could still fuck this up. I can sell my NFTs on marketplaces completely independent of ubisoft. Sure they could invalidate, not honor the NFTs, but i wouldnt expect them to do so unless criminal activity like money laundering is involved.

Not if the NFTs are only minted and valid on their own marketplace/blockchain.

Then its good that they are not minted and valid on their own marketplace/blockchain. https://tezos.com/ https://rankchart.org/site/objkt.com/ https://rarible.com/

Re: Ubisoft deleted account with hundreds of dollars’ worth of games for inactivity

#450
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one simple legislation could help a lot: forbid to use the word 'buy' in this context. Instead it should be 'hire' or 'lease' or something. Once I 'bought' an e-book that was copy protected by Adobe (my fault I didn't read the specs before buying). But because you can only read it when Adobe's servers are online no ownership is transferred to you as buyer. You buy rights to read the book on their terms. 'Hire…

It's almost impossible to buy a DRM free book.

While I kind of want to give a snarky answer of "actually, buying an ebook without DRM is exactly as easy as it is as buying one with, the trick is just finding one without DRM," the truth is that this is dependent entirely on the publisher. I buy a lot of technical books from Pragmatic Programmers, which are all DRM-free, and I believe they're not alone in that. My small press fiction publisher doesn't use DRM; Tor Books, the biggest sf/fantasy publisher, doesn't use DRM, either. People who self-publish through Amazon are given a choice whether or not to apply DRM to their books.

So, no, it's actually quite possible to buy a DRM-free ebook. The question is whether the book you want is available without DRM.

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