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A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

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Re: A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

#51

Post by kelnos »

djrockstar1 wrote: post #30

It's appalling to me that iOS developers still exist after all the hoops you have to jump through to get an iOS app out. I'm a web developer that got roped into developing and then publishing a react native app for android and iOS. The android process was relatively painless compared to the crap Apple has you do. For starters, you can't even produce an app build without running on iOS, so the company had to procure a…

Well:

> Anywho, that’s Apple for you. Why am I still an iOS developer? I dunno, I got bills to pay.

People will chase the money. Even with the onerous review process and 30% cut, there's still a good amount of money to be made on the App Store.

This is the standard collective action problem: if a significant chunk of iOS app developers just said "that's enough, we're not working on this anymore" (and if legions of other developers didn't surge in to replace them), then you better believe things would change. But no one wants to stick out, and most software developers seem to think they're too good for a union.

Re: A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

#52

Post by ankit219 »

Anywhere there are humans involved, there are bound to be multiple interpretations of the same words. This becomes a problem when you put humans in positions where if they do their job well, there is no upside, but screwing up has a large downside. Most Apple Reviewers work keeping that in mind. Some are strict, others are not, and the chances are when you are matched with a random reviewer, your app would always be reviewed differently. This has downsides, but this reduces bias and malice (and keeps just incompetency in the process) and this is a better system than one where you are stuck with one reviewer throughout. (imagine being assigned the most anal reviewer possible)

Regarding the 30% cut and the review process, of course it does not make me happy as a developer. As a user though, I can give an iphone to my parents knowing full well that they would not be scammed or be enticed into downloading really shady apps. This has happened on android where they would just give away every permission, and had lock screen controlled by a totally useless app. I would not risk giving them free access to android again, no matter how much time it takes for them to get used to iPhone.

Review process is important in that regard, and if a bunch of devs like me need to pay to fund that, I am happy with that given what it results in on the consumer side. The 30% tax needs to be for infinitely reproducible digital goods - like items in fortnite where a new purchase in db entry - vs scare digital goods like an one time only online session by someone. The other alternative means it's contingent on me as a dev to build trust to get payments and this is where I would always lose out to big brands anyway. Wish there was a better way, but have no suggestions as to how.

Re: A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

#53

Post by suction »

travisd wrote: post #47
suction wrote: post #44

Does Tumblr have to be an app for any non-marketing reason? If your website allows upload of porn, let it live in on the free internet as long as we still have it and don't waste resources on making it an "app". Problem solved. If that eats into your returns in a significant way, you don't have a viable business model.

> If that eats into your returns in a significant way, you don't have a viable business model A viable business model is one where, by definition, consumers will purchase your thing at levels that are sustainable. People use apps more than they use web browsers for the most part. Tumblr has to build what people want.

...or what people think they want...

Re: A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

#54

Post by raphaelrk »

snyp wrote: post #39
djrockstar1 wrote: post #30

It's appalling to me that iOS developers still exist after all the hoops you have to jump through to get an iOS app out. I'm a web developer that got roped into developing and then publishing a react native app for android and iOS. The android process was relatively painless compared to the crap Apple has you do. For starters, you can't even produce an app build without running on iOS, so the company had to procure a…

Building reactnative apps is time consuming because of the library and it’s dependencies. Native compile times are much faster.

I find building react native apps much faster than building native apps. You don't need to recompile if you're just changing the javascript, and only a couple weeks out of the year have I actually needed to change any native code.

Re: A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

#55

Post by sieabahlpark »

1123581321 wrote: post #42
mattigames wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the news say that app store is full of porn when you search it on Tumblr but not when you search it on Reddit? If they let at least one company do it it does seem kind of dumb.

I don't know about tumblr, but reddit doesn't allow nsfw subs out of the box on mobile, and for logged in users, you have to explicitly enable it. Obviously you can still find nsfw content on reddit that isn't labeled as such, so beyond that, it's probably up to the developer's soft skills. reddit probably has some people who are good at framing the app in communication with review, escalating review decisions, and c…

No post body was provided.

Re: A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

#56

Post by trymas »

thewebcount wrote: post #40
saagarjha wrote: post #16

> In the case of Tumblr, this would be a reviewer going to search, typing in something like 'tits’ and finding porn. Just want to emphasize this part. App Store Reviewers are completely asinine. Like, dumb as a rock. It’d almost be funny if their stupidity didn’t block your app approval. To be explicitly clear: if your app contains UGC, they will explicitly go and search for things to ding you on, and then fault you…

> They will go to the search bar and type in “milf” or “butts” (I wish I were joking). They’ll try to search for drugs on your marketplace. I don’t understand why you think that’s dumb. This is what people who download the app will do, so they’re trying out real scenarios that will happen. They don’t want to have there be a segment on the nightly news saying, “App Store Full of Porn!” Which is what will happen in the…

> This is what people who download the app will do, so they’re trying out real scenarios that will happen. They don’t want to have there be a segment on the nightly news saying, “App Store Full of Porn!” Which is what will happen in these scenarios.

Lets ban web browsers.

Re: A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

#57

Post by xg15 »

thewebcount wrote: post #40
saagarjha wrote: post #16

> In the case of Tumblr, this would be a reviewer going to search, typing in something like 'tits’ and finding porn. Just want to emphasize this part. App Store Reviewers are completely asinine. Like, dumb as a rock. It’d almost be funny if their stupidity didn’t block your app approval. To be explicitly clear: if your app contains UGC, they will explicitly go and search for things to ding you on, and then fault you…

> They will go to the search bar and type in “milf” or “butts” (I wish I were joking). They’ll try to search for drugs on your marketplace. I don’t understand why you think that’s dumb. This is what people who download the app will do, so they’re trying out real scenarios that will happen. They don’t want to have there be a segment on the nightly news saying, “App Store Full of Porn!” Which is what will happen in the…

So the general agreement is that people should not be allowed to consume porn in the united states?

Re: A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

#58

Post by malwarebytess »

Anon1096 wrote: post #26
saagarjha wrote: post #16

> In the case of Tumblr, this would be a reviewer going to search, typing in something like 'tits’ and finding porn. Just want to emphasize this part. App Store Reviewers are completely asinine. Like, dumb as a rock. It’d almost be funny if their stupidity didn’t block your app approval. To be explicitly clear: if your app contains UGC, they will explicitly go and search for things to ding you on, and then fault you…

How do Reddit and Twitter pass the App Store review process? I'm pretty sure you can trivially find porn by searching for it.

Can you? Reddit makes you change a setting, save it, reload the page, uncheck a couple more settings, save, before you can see adult content these days. per-account

quick test logged out:

search "butts" -> no nsfw results on first page search "tits" -> a couple unlabeled nsfw posts (against reddit rules.)

Re: A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

#59

Post by saagarjha »

thewebcount wrote: post #40
saagarjha wrote: post #16

> In the case of Tumblr, this would be a reviewer going to search, typing in something like 'tits’ and finding porn. Just want to emphasize this part. App Store Reviewers are completely asinine. Like, dumb as a rock. It’d almost be funny if their stupidity didn’t block your app approval. To be explicitly clear: if your app contains UGC, they will explicitly go and search for things to ding you on, and then fault you…

> They will go to the search bar and type in “milf” or “butts” (I wish I were joking). They’ll try to search for drugs on your marketplace. I don’t understand why you think that’s dumb. This is what people who download the app will do, so they’re trying out real scenarios that will happen. They don’t want to have there be a segment on the nightly news saying, “App Store Full of Porn!” Which is what will happen in the…

There’s a couple of responses already, but I think they miss the main point: when the Apple reviewer goes out and does this, they don’t mark your app for “unrestricted web access” (which is the category third party browsers go in, and immediately makes them rated 17+). That would actually make sense, even if you consider it “unfair” because Apple’s own apps of course don’t get those ratings.

No, the problem is that when a reviewer finds anything “questionable” in your app, they mark it as a porno app. Pornographic apps cannot be in the App Store. That rule is designed to keep PornHub off the store (again, putting the morality of this aside…) and yet Apple equates your app with them even if 99% of your content is squeaky clean. The reviewers specifically seek out content that they want to flag, and the problem is that they then reject it by representing it as if they just stumbled upon it by accident, or that it’s so prevalent that it’s obviously the purpose of your app. So now you’re stuck arguing that your app is not a portal for porn in these absurd cases where the reviewer has, through their misunderstanding of the rule, changed the argument from “is your app primarily focused around the consumption of pornography” to “does your app make nudity available to a determined user”?

Re: A Tumblr developer on the App Store approval process

#60

Post by agsnu »

1123581321 wrote: post #42
mattigames wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the news say that app store is full of porn when you search it on Tumblr but not when you search it on Reddit? If they let at least one company do it it does seem kind of dumb.

I don't know about tumblr, but reddit doesn't allow nsfw subs out of the box on mobile, and for logged in users, you have to explicitly enable it. Obviously you can still find nsfw content on reddit that isn't labeled as such, so beyond that, it's probably up to the developer's soft skills. reddit probably has some people who are good at framing the app in communication with review, escalating review decisions, and c…

Let's be honest, it likely has much less to do with developer soft skills and more to do with the value Apple perceives from the app being on their platform. The big fish will have more sway; it makes good business sense but it's anti-competitive.
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