Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware • Hacker News Board

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#101

Post by rurban » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 11:13 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #42

gambiting wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Pole, it frustrates me to no end as the 90s and 2000s were the time of incredible optimism and opportunity, then the country joined the EU in 2004 you could see *everything" improving very very quickly, huge level of growth and opportunities for everyone, country slowly becoming more and more progressive too, and then PiS got elected and everything went to shit, 6 years down and I don't recognize this country or…

> then PiS got elected and everything went to shit, 6 years down and I don't recognize this country or its values anymore Is there concern this could impact Poland's NATO status in the long run? In the short run, of course not, it's strategically located. But in the long run, as values diverge, isn't there fear it could become untenable for a U.S. president to call for spilling American blood to protect such a countr…

NATO prefers authoritarian and extreme-right wing over socialist modern democracies. The EU on the other hand not.

The EU membership is in danger, not NATO. And if the EU wouldn't hope the next elections would fix that, Poland would have been thrown out already.

There are a couple of other authoritarian eastern block countries who are now encouraged by Poland, which will blow up to a full blown crisis if not handled immediately.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#102

Post by max002 » Sat, Dec 25, 2021, 3:10 PM UTC

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #63

skocznymroczny wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Destroying is a bit of an overstatement. Unfortunately we live in a political climate, not only in Poland, that whenever left-wing candidates lose an election, it's populism and backsliding on democracy. But if the candidate that was supposed to win, wins, companies are all foreign owned and NGOs control all spheres of life, then it's freedom and democracy.

In the case of Poland, traditional denominations left-right are meaningless. In economic terms, the current government is very leftist: it seeks the votes of the poorest citizens, increases the tax burden of those who earn above average and so on. In many aspects, they are very similar to past socialist governments before 1989. Paradoxically, the officially leftist party that actually ruled Poland for some time was q…

Cuerrent gov is left? Omg. They support and pay money for ultra right organisation and racist movements! Populism is not "left"!

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#103

Post by hdjjhhvvhga » Sun, Dec 26, 2021, 10:51 AM UTC

max002 wrote: post #102

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of Poland, traditional denominations left-right are meaningless. In economic terms, the current government is very leftist: it seeks the votes of the poorest citizens, increases the tax burden of those who earn above average and so on. In many aspects, they are very similar to past socialist governments before 1989. Paradoxically, the officially leftist party that actually ruled Poland for some time was q…

Cuerrent gov is left? Omg. They support and pay money for ultra right organisation and racist movements! Populism is not "left"!

I'm not sure you understood my comment. What I mean is that traditional denominations like left-right are completely inadequate. It's like arguing that the NSDAP was a leftist party since they had "sozialistische" in the name - trying to cast multi-dminensional phenomena onto one dimension results not just in inadequacy but completely obscures the actual situation.

In the case of the current ruling party, they certainly brand themselves as right-wing and they want to occupy the whole spectrum from the center to the right. However, their way of thinking in economic terms, their dislike of private business, their understanding of the function of the government and local government, of centralization, public vs private property etc. - all this is very much related to their experience of the past socialist regime. The reforms they are doing right now basically mean taking money from individual people running their own businesses and transferring them to the rest, creating one of the most weird taxation schemes Poland saw so far.