Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware • Hacker News Board

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#41

Post by passerby1 » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #14

gambiting wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Pole, it frustrates me to no end as the 90s and 2000s were the time of incredible optimism and opportunity, then the country joined the EU in 2004 you could see *everything" improving very very quickly, huge level of growth and opportunities for everyone, country slowly becoming more and more progressive too, and then PiS got elected and everything went to shit, 6 years down and I don't recognize this country or…

Agreed it is super frustrating. I still have a ton of ties with Poland and the level of disillusion among my contacts there is absolutely overwhelming. Brexit has caused a lot of Polish people that had set up shop abroad between a rock and a hard place: some of them were planning to move back but those plans are now on hold forever. And the ones remaining in Poland that were trying their hardest to move the country f…

I don't get what connection does the Brexit have to Poland, would you explain?

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#42

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #10

Claude_Shannon wrote: post #4

We have a meme - "when there is a pandemic and you don't know whether to close schools or cementaries, so you close Giertych". It is almost a tradition at this moment - cases are rising? Quick, arrest him! Okay, on a serious note - this won't change anything. Poland is very polarised right now politically. PiS voters won't care as long as the state gives them money, and the rest already won't vote for them no matter…

As a Pole, it frustrates me to no end as the 90s and 2000s were the time of incredible optimism and opportunity, then the country joined the EU in 2004 you could see *everything" improving very very quickly, huge level of growth and opportunities for everyone, country slowly becoming more and more progressive too, and then PiS got elected and everything went to shit, 6 years down and I don't recognize this country or…

> then PiS got elected and everything went to shit, 6 years down and I don't recognize this country or its values anymore

Is there concern this could impact Poland's NATO status in the long run? In the short run, of course not, it's strategically located. But in the long run, as values diverge, isn't there fear it could become untenable for a U.S. president to call for spilling American blood to protect such a country?

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#43

Post by ajuc » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

passerby1 wrote: post #41

jacquesm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed it is super frustrating. I still have a ton of ties with Poland and the level of disillusion among my contacts there is absolutely overwhelming. Brexit has caused a lot of Polish people that had set up shop abroad between a rock and a hard place: some of them were planning to move back but those plans are now on hold forever. And the ones remaining in Poland that were trying their hardest to move the country f…

I don't get what connection does the Brexit have to Poland, would you explain?

There were about a million Poles in UK that migrated in early 00s when UK was the first to open borders to new EU members and when Poland had huge unemployment still.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#44

Post by lkrubner » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

lkrubner wrote: post #36

bitcharmer wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain the reason behind currently skyrocketing inflation and PLN devaluation then?

Poland is able to keep its unemployment somewhat down, by keeping the zloty weak relative to the euro, and therefore helping Polish exports. And before anyone says "Poland has a lot of unemployment" compare it to other weak Eastern European countries on the euro. Poland could end inflation if it wanted higher unemployment, but for now it accepts the higher inflation and weaker zloty so as to help exports and so limit…

I'm not sure why this is getting downvoted. If you believe there is no link between the currency, inflation and employment then you're engaging in a well known economic fallacy. See "The Doctrine of Immaculate Transfer":

https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/the-doctrine-of...

"The fallacy comes in when you say, “Well, given that it’s all about spending imbalances, exchange rate policy has nothing to do with it.” This is what John Williamson of the Institute for International Economics once dubbed the Doctrine of Immaculate Transfer. (Uh-oh, Erick Erickson’s gonna come after me …) It’s a popular fallacy, especially at the WSJ, although I’m not sure if it rises to zombie status."

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#45

Post by tryauuum » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

trasz wrote: post #18

Claude_Shannon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no hope anymore. It won't get better. If people want 500 zł monthly and are willing to sell themselves and the country for that - let them...

Well, look at it this way: how bad it must have been for those people to prefer the 500zł instead? I'd say that's what the previous government missed completely: that the old state of affairs simply didn't work for many people.

Can you explain from someone not from Poland, what does 500zł mean? Is it some sort of minimal wage?

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#46

Post by jonnycomputer » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #10

Claude_Shannon wrote: post #4

We have a meme - "when there is a pandemic and you don't know whether to close schools or cementaries, so you close Giertych". It is almost a tradition at this moment - cases are rising? Quick, arrest him! Okay, on a serious note - this won't change anything. Poland is very polarised right now politically. PiS voters won't care as long as the state gives them money, and the rest already won't vote for them no matter…

As a Pole, it frustrates me to no end as the 90s and 2000s were the time of incredible optimism and opportunity, then the country joined the EU in 2004 you could see *everything" improving very very quickly, huge level of growth and opportunities for everyone, country slowly becoming more and more progressive too, and then PiS got elected and everything went to shit, 6 years down and I don't recognize this country or…

Not a Pole, but my spouse is. Assisted my father-in-law, in a wheelchair, to make it up the stairs to vote for EU membership. So much optimism that day. It makes us so sad to see what has happened. PiS is piss, imo.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#47

Post by mc32 » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

passerby1 wrote: post #41

jacquesm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed it is super frustrating. I still have a ton of ties with Poland and the level of disillusion among my contacts there is absolutely overwhelming. Brexit has caused a lot of Polish people that had set up shop abroad between a rock and a hard place: some of them were planning to move back but those plans are now on hold forever. And the ones remaining in Poland that were trying their hardest to move the country f…

I don't get what connection does the Brexit have to Poland, would you explain?

I think there is a Pole diaspora/immigrant pop. in the UK, so Brexit would affect their ability to move through borders for employment purposes and thus affects plans for settlement, doing business and so on.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#48

Post by bjelkeman-again » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

passerby1 wrote: post #41

jacquesm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed it is super frustrating. I still have a ton of ties with Poland and the level of disillusion among my contacts there is absolutely overwhelming. Brexit has caused a lot of Polish people that had set up shop abroad between a rock and a hard place: some of them were planning to move back but those plans are now on hold forever. And the ones remaining in Poland that were trying their hardest to move the country f…

I don't get what connection does the Brexit have to Poland, would you explain?

A lot of Poles moved to the UK to work.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#49

Post by jonnycomputer » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

passerby1 wrote: post #41

jacquesm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed it is super frustrating. I still have a ton of ties with Poland and the level of disillusion among my contacts there is absolutely overwhelming. Brexit has caused a lot of Polish people that had set up shop abroad between a rock and a hard place: some of them were planning to move back but those plans are now on hold forever. And the ones remaining in Poland that were trying their hardest to move the country f…

I don't get what connection does the Brexit have to Poland, would you explain?

Poles who moved to Britain because they were all part of the EU and there was economic opportunity are now an entirely different status in Britain. Like an Oklahoman coming to California as an American, and then finding they're not anymore.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#50

Post by bjelkeman-again » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #15

Claude_Shannon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no hope anymore. It won't get better. If people want 500 zł monthly and are willing to sell themselves and the country for that - let them...

That's nice in theory but when you are personally dragged down right along with them then that it becomes a very practical problem.

It has a big impact on the EU as well when an EU country start flouting the EU laws.