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Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

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31–40 of 103 posts

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still doesn't work as all those social programs are unsustainable from fiscal viewpoint. It's all financed by debt and inflation.

Not true. In fact, those programs are only barely more expensive than "podatek liniowy", which got introduced decades ago and which is essentially a subsidy for the wealthy for being wealthy.

Care to explain the reason behind currently skyrocketing inflation and PLN devaluation then?

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#32
This is not black and white as it might seem.

Please check who is Mr. Giertych - and he is not a hero attorney fighting for the good of the people, he was involved in a rather unclear businesses, which are now investigated by the prosecution. Giertych got a lot of publicity when he managed to skillfully avoid interrogation - when Police arrived to transport him he was faking sickness.

To make things funnier, Giertych was a member of the far right wing of the currently ruling party (Law and Order), he was even a ministry of education at some point.

Right now he pretends to be persecuted by the government just in case he will be sentenced.

Ewa Wrzosek, on the other hand, is known from exactly one case: she started investigation to check if presidential election was "safe for the society" (because of covid, obviously). The crux here is that due to the deficiencies that Polish constitution has it didn't anticipated situation in which the election cannot happen, so there were no possible legal solution to avoid the election without destabilizing political system.

So, from the beginning, it was clear that Ms. Wrzosek action was a purely political demonstration (she was a well known critic of the government). Later she admitted that "probably everything was ok" , and "eventually investigation would have been cancelled, but why not double check" [1]...

Regardless if someone likes or not current Polish authorities (I am definitely not) the attempt to undermine the election and destabilize country by some prosecutor does not sound well.

[1] https://www.fakt.pl/wydarzenia/polityka/ewa-wrzosek-kim-jest...

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#33
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. In fact, those programs are only barely more expensive than "podatek liniowy", which got introduced decades ago and which is essentially a subsidy for the wealthy for being wealthy.

Care to explain the reason behind currently skyrocketing inflation and PLN devaluation then?

https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/inflation-rate. Also, while it's kind of hard to say for sure how Poland is doing, and while there definitely are some things that the current government is horrible at, it would be quite a stretch to say it's the "500+" program's fault. Especially given that "podatek liniowy" still exists.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#34
post #12

Israel banned Poland from using NSO spyware after this: https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,27895266,israel-bans-polish-int... "On November 25, the Times of Israel reported that the Israeli government has banned the sales of Pegasus to autocratic regimes, as well as to the governments of Poland and Hungary. The list of countries to which Israeli surveillance companies can sell their spyware has been reduced from 102 to 37.…

>Times of Israel reported that the Israeli government has banned the sales of Pegasus to autocratic regimes, as well as to the governments of Poland and Hungary This may sound a little paranoid but I always treat declarations like this with a grain of salt.

It's not. As if it was beyond the Israelean government itself to resort to such tactics ... In fact, I know only very few governments where I would be willing to swear on my life that they would never use such tactics.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#35
post #12

Israel banned Poland from using NSO spyware after this: https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,27895266,israel-bans-polish-int... "On November 25, the Times of Israel reported that the Israeli government has banned the sales of Pegasus to autocratic regimes, as well as to the governments of Poland and Hungary. The list of countries to which Israeli surveillance companies can sell their spyware has been reduced from 102 to 37.…

This happened November 2021, while the software was used to attack public prosecutor and advocate in 2019. That means that they never reviewed the targets, and only reacted after the NGOs published a list of illegal attacks.

(Eavesdropping advocate is illegal under Polish law.)

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#36
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. In fact, those programs are only barely more expensive than "podatek liniowy", which got introduced decades ago and which is essentially a subsidy for the wealthy for being wealthy.

Care to explain the reason behind currently skyrocketing inflation and PLN devaluation then?

Poland is able to keep its unemployment somewhat down, by keeping the zloty weak relative to the euro, and therefore helping Polish exports. And before anyone says "Poland has a lot of unemployment" compare it to other weak Eastern European countries on the euro. Poland could end inflation if it wanted higher unemployment, but for now it accepts the higher inflation and weaker zloty so as to help exports and so limit how bad unemployment might get.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will take an enormous amount of effort and money to fix everything they brought down. But I believe in Poles - they rebuilt their capital from ruins after WW2, they made an enormous progress after they became a democracy, so no doubt they will also manage to fix everything the populists are destroying right now. But as you say - it's a pity Polish people lost a few years and lots of opportunities.

Destroying is a bit of an overstatement. Unfortunately we live in a political climate, not only in Poland, that whenever left-wing candidates lose an election, it's populism and backsliding on democracy. But if the candidate that was supposed to win, wins, companies are all foreign owned and NGOs control all spheres of life, then it's freedom and democracy.

The political competition in Poland is between the center-right and the far-right. If you look at someone like Donald Tusk, the stuff he promotes is all right-wing stuff: free markets, foreign investment, free movement of capital, minimal government oversight of the economy. It's pretty much the standard right-wing agenda of the last 100 years. He's simply moderate compared to someone like Kaczyński.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no hope anymore. It won't get better. If people want 500 zł monthly and are willing to sell themselves and the country for that - let them...

That's nice in theory but when you are personally dragged down right along with them then that it becomes a very practical problem.

Many Poles already left, many still will. It's a never ending brain drain since 2004.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Times of Israel reported that the Israeli government has banned the sales of Pegasus to autocratic regimes, as well as to the governments of Poland and Hungary This may sound a little paranoid but I always treat declarations like this with a grain of salt.

It's not. As if it was beyond the Israelean government itself to resort to such tactics ... In fact, I know only very few governments where I would be willing to swear on my life that they would never use such tactics.

> I know only very few governments where I would be willing to swear on my life that they would never use such tactics.

What are they?

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