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Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

theguardian.com

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Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#151

Post by jimjimjim »

refurb wrote: post #55
josephcsible wrote: post #39

Investor visas are just a distraction. The fundamental problem is that there's any restriction whatsoever on New Zealand's citizens entering their own country. The MIQ system should be abolished, and anyone who helped create it, or who has had enough power in the country to abolish it but chose to let it continue, should be put in prison for human rights violations (specifically, in the Universal Declaration of Human…

Yup. Even authoritarian Singapore didn’t restrict its citizens from returning. It imposed rules on testing and quarantine, but they were free to jump on the next flight home. Incredible seeing democracies like Australia and NZ tell their own citizens “no, you cant come home”.

later, they came go home later

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#152

Post by jimjimjim »

josephcsible wrote: post #118
pikelet wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cross the line? As a kiwi who got stuck in Peru for over 6 months due to the border closure and lack of flights, and had to go through MIQ when I was finally able to return, I'm extremely grateful for the MIQ system. Do I think it could have been handled better? Yes, especially recently as the answer to a lack of MIQ spaces shouldn't have been to make a lottery system it should have been to make more spaces; but over…

This makes no sense at all. Your life would have been strictly easier if MIQ didn't exist, so why are you grateful for it?

there would be lots of covid all over new zealand and therefore his everyday normal life would be worse than it might be now with minimal covid spread?

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#153

Post by janeroe »

aunty_helen wrote: post #46
tuatoru wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…

Honestly, the entire MIQ program is a gross violation of the bill of rights and several international treaties. So I don't think the rule of law goes very far in NZ as they seem to just handwave it away and most people in NZ couldn't care less because of the fear they have from living reasonably isolated for the past year and a half. NZers should expect to be on the hook for at least a few class action lawsuits for d…

> Honestly, the entire MIQ program is a gross violation of the bill of rights and several international treaties. So I don't think the rule of law goes very far in NZ as they seem to just handwave it away and most people in NZ couldn't care less because of the fear they have from living reasonably isolated for the past year and a half.

But, but the Cato Institute says it's the freest country in the world. And the Heritage foundation places it in the list of the most economically free. No way those ratings are bollocks.

P.S.: Interestingly, the latter puts Kazakhstan (where the president and his people shamelessly extort 40-60% share of every major business and enterprise) in the "mostly free" section. Makes one wonder about how those ratings are composed.

And the description of Kyrgyzstan shows its authors don't understand what they are writing at all:

> Former Prime Minister and ruling Social-Democratic Party of Kyrgyzstan member Sooronbai Jeenbekov defeated former President Almazbek Atambayev in 2017 elections that were the most competitive in the country’s history.

It's equivalent to:

> Former Vice President and ruling US Democratic Party member Joe Biden defeated former President Barack Obama in 2020 elections that were the most competitive in the country’s history.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#154

Post by yardstick »

parkingrift wrote: post #10

>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…

> Seems the outrage should be directed at this MIQ system. The visa scheme seems to be an enormous benefit to NZ.

You are absolutely correct on both counts. If we didn’t have MIQ, this would be a non-issue to most kiwis.

The root of it is MIQ has prevented kiwis from traveling to/from NZ for the last 2 years. This has created massive strain on separated families and extended families. It has created stress on those in NZ who cannot leave because the govt won’t let them return without a MIQ slot.

Globally, the pandemic has moved on from elimination to coexistence. Vaccines, good hygiene, being sensible.

NZ’s continued use of MIQ/draconian restrictions on freedom of movement is counter to what needs to happen (return to business as usual).

At this current point in time, with over 90% of eligible people vaccinated, the trade off between lives saved by MIQ vs returning to normality does not, IMO and a lot of other kiwis, justify the continuation of MIQ.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#155

Post by jordanthoms »

shkkmo wrote: post #130
BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>”Our society has decided that nobody should die from COVID. That’s still the right answer.” This sentiment should terrify you. COVID is serious, but my god, there are so much more dangerous and lethal things out there. You’ve basically just given your government a virtual blank check to do as it pleases so long as the threat is sufficiently scary. >”many many more living with chronic conditions and the economy and s…

Hasn't NZ's draconian border restrictions been precisely what has allowed them to avoid the need to impose the types of burdensome local restrictions that threaten these small businesses?

We had less local restrictions than most other countries until delta hit 4 months ago - since then we've had a 3-month lockdown in our largest city and huge impact to small businesses, and we still have citizens locked out of the country. Deaths are comparatively low though.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#156

Post by garbagetime »

laingc wrote: post #40

As a New Zealander, I am super supportive of easier pathways for wealthy people to bring themselves, their expertise, their connections, and their money here. Furthermore, my anecdotal observation is that articles in The Guardian about New Zealand reflect not reality, but rather the talking points of a very small subset of the hard Left of our political class. I know that this is The Guardian’s line in general, but i…

As a New Zealander, I am in favour of immigration policy being determined in a democratic fashion.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#158

Post by sofixa »

tuatoru wrote: post #17
parkingrift wrote: post #10

>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…

In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…

> The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle.

The industrialisation of Tsarist Russia kind of disproves that.

> Abandoning the rule of law leads eventually to autocracy. From this distance the US appears to be well down that road.

I agree with that.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#159

Post by jimworm »

Even the most expensive MIQ places are incredibly cheap to the average millionaire, NZ$5520 for 14 days for a single adult, which gets cheaper per person when sharing [1]. There are also huge outstanding bills (over NZ$13M) from people that have been through MIQ and haven't paid [2]. Some of the hotels in the MIQ list could be a lot better than others [3]. The solution is to make these investor visa categories pay a lot more - something like 10x - to fund the others who can't pay, but give them priority to the best rooms.

[1] https://www.miq.govt.nz/being-in-managed-isolation/charges-f...

[2] https://www.miq.govt.nz/about/media-centre/common-topics-for...

[3] https://www.miq.govt.nz/being-in-managed-isolation/isolation...

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#160

Post by vasco »

roca wrote: post #134
nimbius wrote: post #9

I think the cat was out of the bag when kimdotcom was indicted. New Zealand is bought and paid for by the cloistered elite seemingly against any real argument by the locals. You could make an argument the work here/look see initiative that imported skilled labor was somehow a counter indication of a plutocracy but I think its largely just salt in the wound for the average NZ resident as it ran defense for anyone who…

Counterpoint: Larry Page entered NZ in early 2021 and was placed in a middling MIQ hotel. His people tried to get him moved to one of the best hotels but were unable to do so. Page is the world's fifth richest person. I think this counts against "New Zealand is bought and paid for by the cloistered elite".

They severely restricted the freedom to return home from all citizens but since they also made billionaire stay in a middle of the road hotel this is what sticks?
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