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Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

theguardian.com

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Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#51

Post by passerby1 »

vanusa wrote: post #30
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #12

In almost all countries you can buy citizenship if you're rich. You don't even need to know the language. Immigration and all these gimmicks are for peasants only.

In almost all countries you can buy citizenship if you're rich. This isn't about simply "buying citizenship". It's about literally bouncing people who are already citizens out (for the duration of the pandemic).

Although controversal, there's no clear way to resolve utilitarian way of seeing this: an investment is required, and sometimes the investment can be good for society by improving a country economy. For sure, the condition is paying taxes, and that is usually a partially satisfied only, as there're almost always a way to avoid tax. (Otherwise what's the reason for a rich one to invest into country at all?)

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#52

Post by bener »

cryptodan wrote: post #32
tuatoru wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…

The visa programs should be halted until all citizens can equally compete. There is no fair competition here. The quarantined are being pissed on while wealthy players continue to live freely. Do you not understand that? Rules for thee but nit for me applies here.

I think your are misunderstanding. The visa programme does not allow you to skip the queue for MIQ. It just gives you a higher chance at a visa if you are rich. It's not going to affect NZ citizens trying to return home, because they find need visas.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#53

Post by bener »

vanusa wrote: post #30
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #12

In almost all countries you can buy citizenship if you're rich. You don't even need to know the language. Immigration and all these gimmicks are for peasants only.

In almost all countries you can buy citizenship if you're rich. This isn't about simply "buying citizenship". It's about literally bouncing people who are already citizens out (for the duration of the pandemic).

It's not. It gives rich people more chance at getting a visa. People who are already citizens don't need a visa.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#54

Post by bener »

josephcsible wrote: post #47
lancewiggs wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we abolished MIQ then Aotearoa NZ would be riddled with COVID, many thousands or tens of thousands would have died, many many more living with chronic conditions and the economy and society crippled. As it happens less than 50 have died, each one a tragedy, while I’ve just had a lovely Christmas with 3 generations, as many others are around the motu. Sure we had to video call relatives in other countries, but thei…

Do you think MIQ will stop community spread in New Zealand forever? If not, then all of those bad things will happen anyway, but by not abolishing MIQ, all of the bad things it causes will happen too. And if everyone were locked in an isolated room from birth, nobody would ever die of any contagious disease, but clearly that's not the right answer.

It will be abolished eventually, quite likely fairly soon.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#55

Post by refurb »

josephcsible wrote: post #39

Investor visas are just a distraction. The fundamental problem is that there's any restriction whatsoever on New Zealand's citizens entering their own country. The MIQ system should be abolished, and anyone who helped create it, or who has had enough power in the country to abolish it but chose to let it continue, should be put in prison for human rights violations (specifically, in the Universal Declaration of Human…

Yup. Even authoritarian Singapore didn’t restrict its citizens from returning. It imposed rules on testing and quarantine, but they were free to jump on the next flight home.

Incredible seeing democracies like Australia and NZ tell their own citizens “no, you cant come home”.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#56

Post by blibble »

laingc wrote: post #40

As a New Zealander, I am super supportive of easier pathways for wealthy people to bring themselves, their expertise, their connections, and their money here. Furthermore, my anecdotal observation is that articles in The Guardian about New Zealand reflect not reality, but rather the talking points of a very small subset of the hard Left of our political class. I know that this is The Guardian’s line in general, but i…

> Furthermore, my anecdotal observation is that articles in The Guardian about New Zealand reflect not reality, but rather the talking points of a very small subset of the hard Left of our political class.

their UK coverage is similar also

they were previously reputable (if slightly biased), but post 2016 reputability seemed to cease to be a priority

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#57

Post by bener »

jollybean wrote: post #31

This is mostly a problem with the bad rules around quarantining, which should not be a problem. It's 2021, are humans able to 'stay away from others' in spaces that are large and vast? Use some common sense and figure it out, there should be no material impedements here.

You think people would voluntarily isolate from each other without any rules in place?

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#58

Post by pempem »

newnamenewface wrote: post #27
GekkePrutser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not always vacation. Many people have close family abroad that they want you see. Sometimes with medical issues so they may not get another chance. I wouldn't travel if vacation was the only reason. Especially if I were living in NZ which is one of the most beautiful places on earth IMO It's also kinda unfair to expect people to have seen Omikron coming :) with the distance to Europe most people from here in NZ…

> It's also kinda unfair to expect people to have seen Omikron coming Perhaps, it's unfair that the government is obligating severe COVID restrictions on travel for citizens (and non-citizens, alike) in a country with 80+% vaccination rates for a disease that's essentially endemic at this point. NZ seems to be just pushing the problem down the line at this point. There will never be a time where they can just open wi…

Just to add to your FWIW: covid is also not endemic.

These regulations sound too restrictive but the attitude towards covid also seems kind of advanced of where we actually are, which is a disease that is mutating due to people traveling and artificial vaccine scarcity

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#59

Post by llukas »

josephcsible wrote: post #47
lancewiggs wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we abolished MIQ then Aotearoa NZ would be riddled with COVID, many thousands or tens of thousands would have died, many many more living with chronic conditions and the economy and society crippled. As it happens less than 50 have died, each one a tragedy, while I’ve just had a lovely Christmas with 3 generations, as many others are around the motu. Sure we had to video call relatives in other countries, but thei…

Do you think MIQ will stop community spread in New Zealand forever? If not, then all of those bad things will happen anyway, but by not abolishing MIQ, all of the bad things it causes will happen too. And if everyone were locked in an isolated room from birth, nobody would ever die of any contagious disease, but clearly that's not the right answer.

NZ needs to wait long enough until vaccines/treatment options are exists and are effective enough.

FDA authorized covid pill two days ago:

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavi...

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#60

Post by bener »

vanusa wrote: post #3
throwaway788 wrote: post #2

The last allocation of MIQ slots had 800+ rooms that were not taken. Anyone who urgently needed to return had the ability to secure a room in December. When Omicron appeared and it hadn’t been detected within the community in NZ it was obvious the NZ government would make changes to delay its introduction by moving to tighten MIQ settings and delaying any removal of quarantine restrictions. https://www.miq.govt.nz/ab…

Anyone who urgently needed to return had the ability to secure a room in December. I don't see how this is relevant. Moving forward, citizens and migrant workers will still be forced to get in line behind wealthy investors.

Citizens are not in line behind wealthy investors, they don't need visas.
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