Live data from Hacker News

Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

theguardian.com

31–40 of 216 posts

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#31
This is mostly a problem with the bad rules around quarantining, which should not be a problem.

It's 2021, are humans able to 'stay away from others' in spaces that are large and vast?

Use some common sense and figure it out, there should be no material impedements here.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#32
post #17

>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…

In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…

The visa programs should be halted until all citizens can equally compete. There is no fair competition here. The quarantined are being pissed on while wealthy players continue to live freely. Do you not understand that? Rules for thee but nit for me applies here.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#33
IMHO this is largely a political storm in a teacup. There has been limited space in quarantine (MIQ) for returning residents over the past year, though this month there is space going free. A vocal group of people stuck overseas by this bottleneck have made a lot of noise about this (and fair enough too). And it's been amplified by the current government's political opposition, as I mentioned above it's not actually a real issue right now (omicron might change this).

The small number of people being granted these residency visas won't get priority in MIQ they'll have to queue with everyone else. What we are seeing here is a small resumption of our normal immigration regime, we're also resuming taking in refugees

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#34
post #17

>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…

In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…

You are not describing Rule of Law. The rule of law is what you use to say that people are treated according to the law, not given special exceptions or punishments because of how much they are liked or hated. The opposite of the rule of law is generally the “rule of men” and is typified by the powerful having the discretion to punish enemies on a whim. Consider, for instance, someone who brings forth a charge of sexual assault against a minister, and is disappeared. The law, however, seems to be followed here.

What you are describing, in any event, is more about Equal Treatment Under the Law, in a moral sense (avoiding any excuse that could read like “anyone can invest $10 million so it’s technically open to everyone”).

But as others here say, the visa holders get in line for limited quarantine facilities like anyone else. It seems like the outrage is about these brand-new residents getting equal treatment with current residents, instead of the current residents getting priority. There is a reasonable case you should prioritize existing citizens over new residents, as they likely have greater reliance interests on their legal residence, but it’s not any rule-of-law or equal-treatment claim.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#36
post #20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is the rule of law? These folks with their new visas line up just like everyone else for an MIQ slot?

The same rule for everyone regardless of wealth or political connection.

Does NZ not benefit from this system? I mean, it seems like a good deal to me - attracting large amounts of local investment in return for something fairly small.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#37
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…

Which part of the rule of law is being violated here?

In regards to corruption and political connections I can recommend taking a look at senate stock watcher [1] which sometimes make it obvious what senator was responsible for which bill, specifically.

[1] https://senatestockwatcher.com/

(edit: the parent comment was asking about violations of rule of law "over here" referring to the US being down that road in its parent comment)

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#38
post #17

>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…

In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…

[deleted]

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#39
Investor visas are just a distraction. The fundamental problem is that there's any restriction whatsoever on New Zealand's citizens entering their own country. The MIQ system should be abolished, and anyone who helped create it, or who has had enough power in the country to abolish it but chose to let it continue, should be put in prison for human rights violations (specifically, in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 13 says "Everyone has the right to [...] return to his country").

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#40
As a New Zealander, I am super supportive of easier pathways for wealthy people to bring themselves, their expertise, their connections, and their money here.

Furthermore, my anecdotal observation is that articles in The Guardian about New Zealand reflect not reality, but rather the talking points of a very small subset of the hard Left of our political class. I know that this is The Guardian’s line in general, but it somehow feels more egregious when applied to a situation I’m more personally familiar with.

Post reply on HN