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Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

theguardian.com

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Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#41

Post by ProjectArcturis »

cookiengineer wrote: post #37
parkingrift wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of the rule of law is being violated here?

In regards to corruption and political connections I can recommend taking a look at senate stock watcher [1] which sometimes make it obvious what senator was responsible for which bill, specifically. [1] https://senatestockwatcher.com/ (edit: the parent comment was asking about violations of rule of law "over here" referring to the US being down that road in its parent comment)

That is a US site and has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#42

Post by postingawayonhn »

throwaway788 wrote: post #2

The last allocation of MIQ slots had 800+ rooms that were not taken. Anyone who urgently needed to return had the ability to secure a room in December. When Omicron appeared and it hadn’t been detected within the community in NZ it was obvious the NZ government would make changes to delay its introduction by moving to tighten MIQ settings and delaying any removal of quarantine restrictions. https://www.miq.govt.nz/ab…

All of the January and February rooms were taken. There were some rooms left for the remaining two weeks in December (likely too shot notice for many people) and March (the quarantine system was meant to mostly end by then).

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#43

Post by gaadd33 »

cookiengineer wrote: post #37
parkingrift wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of the rule of law is being violated here?

In regards to corruption and political connections I can recommend taking a look at senate stock watcher [1] which sometimes make it obvious what senator was responsible for which bill, specifically. [1] https://senatestockwatcher.com/ (edit: the parent comment was asking about violations of rule of law "over here" referring to the US being down that road in its parent comment)

I might be missing something but I'm not sure what that has to do with New Zealand. From a quick glance, there didn't seem to be any information related to the country mentioned.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#44

Post by lancewiggs »

josephcsible wrote: post #39

Investor visas are just a distraction. The fundamental problem is that there's any restriction whatsoever on New Zealand's citizens entering their own country. The MIQ system should be abolished, and anyone who helped create it, or who has had enough power in the country to abolish it but chose to let it continue, should be put in prison for human rights violations (specifically, in the Universal Declaration of Human…

If we abolished MIQ then Aotearoa NZ would be riddled with COVID, many thousands or tens of thousands would have died, many many more living with chronic conditions and the economy and society crippled.

As it happens less than 50 have died, each one a tragedy, while I’ve just had a lovely Christmas with 3 generations, as many others are around the motu. Sure we had to video call relatives in other countries, but their lockdown conditions today were far far worse than what we have here.

Our society has decided that nobody should die from COVID. That’s still the right answer.

There were free MIQ slots 2 weeks ago.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#45

Post by gaadd33 »

cryptodan wrote: post #32
tuatoru wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…

The visa programs should be halted until all citizens can equally compete. There is no fair competition here. The quarantined are being pissed on while wealthy players continue to live freely. Do you not understand that? Rules for thee but nit for me applies here.

I don't fully know everything about the MIQ program but it seems like citizens can compete for spaces on an equal basis and this adds the visa applicants to the pool. So while it reduces their chances of being picked from 1 out of x to 1 out of (x + y) it seems like it's still fair?

If the MIQ program is similar to some citizenship programs where you get points for things and this is giving them as many or more points than just having citizenship does, I would agree it's unfair.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#46

Post by aunty_helen »

tuatoru wrote: post #17
parkingrift wrote: post #10

>Immigration New Zealand (INZ) recently granted 32 visas to people who pledged to invest at least $10m locally over three years and another 76 visas to individuals pledging to invest at least $3m, according to the news website Stuff. > With their visas in hand, investors may apply to compete for spots in New Zealand’s congested MIQ system. A stay in MIQ is a prerequisite for entry to the country, which has been large…

In New Zealand we try to have something called the Rule of Law. The same laws and regulations apply to everyone regardless of wealth or political connection. The rule of law is the key innovation that allowed the industrial revolution to take place bringing the West to its present rich and free lifestyle. Adherence to the rule of law is a major reason why NZ is regularly in the top 5 countries globally for lack of co…

Honestly, the entire MIQ program is a gross violation of the bill of rights and several international treaties. So I don't think the rule of law goes very far in NZ as they seem to just handwave it away and most people in NZ couldn't care less because of the fear they have from living reasonably isolated for the past year and a half.

NZers should expect to be on the hook for at least a few class action lawsuits for damages. For example people who have watched loved ones die on a video call because they haven't been rightfully allowed back into their country.

It's going to cost in the long run but the dust hasn't settled yet. I'll be joining up for damages and a few months extra living costs placed on me before I could get a MIQ spot.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#47

Post by josephcsible »

lancewiggs wrote: post #44
josephcsible wrote: post #39

Investor visas are just a distraction. The fundamental problem is that there's any restriction whatsoever on New Zealand's citizens entering their own country. The MIQ system should be abolished, and anyone who helped create it, or who has had enough power in the country to abolish it but chose to let it continue, should be put in prison for human rights violations (specifically, in the Universal Declaration of Human…

If we abolished MIQ then Aotearoa NZ would be riddled with COVID, many thousands or tens of thousands would have died, many many more living with chronic conditions and the economy and society crippled. As it happens less than 50 have died, each one a tragedy, while I’ve just had a lovely Christmas with 3 generations, as many others are around the motu. Sure we had to video call relatives in other countries, but thei…

Do you think MIQ will stop community spread in New Zealand forever? If not, then all of those bad things will happen anyway, but by not abolishing MIQ, all of the bad things it causes will happen too. And if everyone were locked in an isolated room from birth, nobody would ever die of any contagious disease, but clearly that's not the right answer.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#48

Post by refurb »

tuatoru wrote: post #20
refurb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is the rule of law? These folks with their new visas line up just like everyone else for an MIQ slot?

The same rule for everyone regardless of wealth or political connection.

It’s is the same rule? Once you have a visa, you apply for MIQ. These visa applicants getting into line like everyone else.

If you’re talking about the visa itself, these rich folks are getting approved through an immigration pathway approved by parliament. Nobody is taking any shortcuts here.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#49

Post by aunty_helen »

chii wrote: post #14
aunty_helen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to plead with the country you're in. Or apply for one of the emergency slots the week you have to leave (pretty difficult at the moment given the flight schedules). Or yano, deportation / imprisonment... There's not many good solutions in this case and it is very difficult to match a reservation spot with an airline ticket out.

> deportation isn't this what you'd want? deported back to your country? It's not like you could be denied entry at the airport, and deported back to the foreign country...

With deportation you're probably going to spend a few days in prision until they can sort you a flight out.

Then as other commenters have mentioned, it's going to have some long lasting consequences.

It will make a lot of the countries in the world require you to get a visa before entering (or even transiting), as in apply for a visa, spend 3-4 months dealing with embassies and spending a decent amount of money while you explain what happened and potentially be denied anyway.

Re: Locked-out New Zealanders outraged as visa scheme for rich foreigners resumes

#50

Post by sh4un »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #8
sh4un wrote: post #4

It's funny because most countries have cautioned people not to leave right now and people just go anyways. No one is shedding tears when you are stuck because you couldn't wait for your budget vacation.

It's not always vacation. Many people have close family abroad that they want you see. Sometimes with medical issues so they may not get another chance. I wouldn't travel if vacation was the only reason. Especially if I were living in NZ which is one of the most beautiful places on earth IMO It's also kinda unfair to expect people to have seen Omikron coming :) with the distance to Europe most people from here in NZ…

In countries like Canada a lot of people signed up for government benefits and went back to their origin country to stretch their free money and then got stuck when the money stopped and the government stopped letting people back in.

The people you hear whining are not the people leaving for medical reasons. It's almost a sport watching people on the news complain about their ruined vacations.

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