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Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

nature.com

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Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#51

Post by rsfern »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #35
epgui wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biochemist here: your claim that vaccination puts children in a worse position is neither supported by this paper, nor substantiated by any other data point to the best of my knowledge.

Boys at least appear to be more in danger from the vaccine than the virus. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r...

I think there’s a bit more nuance to it than that

The paper in question found that in this age group risk of hospitalization for cardiac adverse events (CAE) is a few times higher than risk of hospitalization with Covid.

It’s unclear (to me at least) how to quantify the level of danger in terms of acute and long term health effects from just this data.

> Further research into the severity and long-term sequelae of post-vaccination CAE is warranted. Quantification of the benefits of the second vaccination dose and vaccination in addition to natural immunity in this demographic may be indicated to minimize harm.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v...

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#52

Post by nradov »

So it's the same as other coronaviruses like HCoV-OC43. There's no vaccine available for those other ones so most of us get infected as youths, and the resulting immunity protects us as we age. But they can still be dangerous to immunologically naive older patients.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7252012/

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#53

Post by retrac »

epgui wrote: post #27
ummonk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you overestimate our ability to “eradicate it in absolutely no time”. Eliminating it from both human and animal reservoirs (and permanently quarantining any immunocompromised carriers) worldwide would be a long and arduous process.

You make a great point about animal reservoirs, but the transmission bandwidth between humans and animals is afaik much lower than between humans. If you accept this assumption, and if we also assume that we really wanted to eradicate this thing, we could limit human transmission such as to reduce Rt well below 1 by implementing well-coordinated and strict policies. Then you're left with the "leaky bucket" of transmi…

Here in Canada, we've been trying to eradicate rabies from the wild for half a century or so now. There are orally-active rabies vaccines we litter the landscape with in edible treat format. We cull rabid animals and quarantine or cull their known animal contacts. It's common knowledge that exposure to possible vectors means you need to go to the hospital. Tens of thousands of people are treated preventatively each year.

Despite all this, human cases of rabies still happen. Fortunately it's rather hard to spread rabies between humans and it's symptomatic by the time it becomes infectious. In the case of an easily airborne virus even with such measures available like vaccination and prophylaxis for possible exposure, it seems daunting to the point of impossible even in a very wealthy country. In the developing world it would be certainly hopeless.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#54

Post by davzie »

tomwojcik wrote: post #29
abduhl wrote: post #3

So the long Covid we’ve been afraid of for our children this whole time has actually been long term immunity? How ironic that our own push to vaccinate and save our children could put them in a worse position immunity-wise. Like rain on your wedding day.

Quoted post unavailable.

Horseshit!

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#55

Post by 3maj »

tomwojcik wrote: post #29
abduhl wrote: post #3

So the long Covid we’ve been afraid of for our children this whole time has actually been long term immunity? How ironic that our own push to vaccinate and save our children could put them in a worse position immunity-wise. Like rain on your wedding day.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is complete nonsense. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.01.21259785v...

In Israel (I use them because they have a fantastic dashboard) not a single individual under the age of 19 has died of covid.

Stop fear mongering.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#56

Post by phonypc »

rootusrootus wrote: post #34
Amezarak wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question ever since it became clear that this coronavirus was endemic has been what a "manageable end game" is: that is, what level of risk and mortality are we prepared to accept, given that deaths from Covid will never be zero. This is, in my opinion, the primary underlying disagreement. Some people think that no amount of deaths from Covid is acceptable. Some people believe that even the peak pandemic mortalit…

> what level of risk and mortality are we prepared to accept IMO, the rational answer to this question is 'the same risk and mortality that we have already accepted from influenza.' There is a lot of variability there, of course, but it is way above zero in any case.

That would seem to make sense if covid displaced flu entirely. But flu + equivalently harmful covid is twice as bad as historical flu.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#57

Post by lern_too_spel »

abduhl wrote: post #16
epgui wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biochemist here: your claim that vaccination puts children in a worse position is neither supported by this paper, nor substantiated by any other data point to the best of my knowledge.

The paper itself asks the question I’ve suggested if you read between the lines: “COVID-19 vaccines are now being administered widely to adult populations and are also being delivered to children in some countries. Therefore, it is imperative to understand the profile of SARS-CoV-2-specific immune responses in children after natural infection to inform vaccination strategy.”

The policy question this answers is whether to vaccinate children who have previously been infected, not whether to vaccinate children who have never been infected. The best decision for the latter group remains vaccination.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#58

Post by DanBC »

mikeyouse wrote: post #2

Finally some glimmers of hope in moving past Covid.. if Omicron continues on its current track of highly infectious but less serious —- and infection confers reactive immunity to a variety of strains, we could be closer to the endemic but manageable end game. Good vaccines + mild severity illness are basically the best case. What a stroke of luck that we are here vs a more infectious strain of Delta or some other nig…

> a more infectious strain of Delta

What? Omicron is a more infectious version of Delta.

Omicron causes the same number of deaths and hospitalisations and long covid as delta. It just also infects a lot more people more easily, and those people are at low risk and push the CFR down.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#59

Post by phonypc »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #35
epgui wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biochemist here: your claim that vaccination puts children in a worse position is neither supported by this paper, nor substantiated by any other data point to the best of my knowledge.

Boys at least appear to be more in danger from the vaccine than the virus. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-r...

No they don't. The study that article references is hot garbage.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/dumpster-diving-in-vaers-do...

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#60

Post by skocznymroczny »

mikeyouse wrote: post #2

Finally some glimmers of hope in moving past Covid.. if Omicron continues on its current track of highly infectious but less serious —- and infection confers reactive immunity to a variety of strains, we could be closer to the endemic but manageable end game. Good vaccines + mild severity illness are basically the best case. What a stroke of luck that we are here vs a more infectious strain of Delta or some other nig…

There's no moving past covid until an exit plan is announced. If there isn't one, the only hope of moving past covid is resistance. If people stopped rushing for the latest vaccine, stopped getting tested regularly, even without symptoms, we would be past covid already.
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