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Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

nature.com

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Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#11

Post by epgui »

abduhl wrote: post #9
epgui wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"immune response from the vaccine is lower than from just getting covid" {{citation needed}} My point is that this is unsubstantiated. And it does make a big difference, because this reduces the likelihood of children going through multiple periods of infectivity: the fewer times children are infectious to others, on average, the more herd immunity we have, collectively, against SARS-CoV-2.

Quoted post unavailable.

I have no idea what you mean. I believe (and at least I was hoping that) my comment was helpful.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#12

Post by soperj »

mikeyouse wrote: post #2

Finally some glimmers of hope in moving past Covid.. if Omicron continues on its current track of highly infectious but less serious —- and infection confers reactive immunity to a variety of strains, we could be closer to the endemic but manageable end game. Good vaccines + mild severity illness are basically the best case. What a stroke of luck that we are here vs a more infectious strain of Delta or some other nig…

>What a stroke of luck that we are here vs a more infectious strain of Delta or some other nightmare that would keep this rolling.

How do we know we won't end up with that? Omicron evolved from Beta, which had pretty well disappeared when Omicron sprung up.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#13

Post by epgui »

Amezarak wrote: post #10
mikeyouse wrote: post #2

Finally some glimmers of hope in moving past Covid.. if Omicron continues on its current track of highly infectious but less serious —- and infection confers reactive immunity to a variety of strains, we could be closer to the endemic but manageable end game. Good vaccines + mild severity illness are basically the best case. What a stroke of luck that we are here vs a more infectious strain of Delta or some other nig…

The question ever since it became clear that this coronavirus was endemic has been what a "manageable end game" is: that is, what level of risk and mortality are we prepared to accept, given that deaths from Covid will never be zero. This is, in my opinion, the primary underlying disagreement. Some people think that no amount of deaths from Covid is acceptable. Some people believe that even the peak pandemic mortalit…

And from my point of view as someone in the field, arguments on either side are almost always based on an intuitive gut feeling about morality.

Very few people actually try to wrangle with putting numbers on the cost (in dollars) of a human life, or the economic burden of disease. There are no right or wrong numbers, but only if you begin there can you say you're rationally considering the economic or political tradeoffs.

Edit: and deaths could absolutely reach zero. If we threw everything and the kitchen sink at the problem, we would eradicate it in absolutely no time. The underlying question is the same here, namely whether the cost of eradicating the disease would be larger or smaller than what we would gain from doing it.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#14

Post by [deleted] »

mikeyouse wrote: post #2

Finally some glimmers of hope in moving past Covid.. if Omicron continues on its current track of highly infectious but less serious —- and infection confers reactive immunity to a variety of strains, we could be closer to the endemic but manageable end game. Good vaccines + mild severity illness are basically the best case. What a stroke of luck that we are here vs a more infectious strain of Delta or some other nig…

[deleted]

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#15

Post by chana_masala »

epgui wrote: post #8
jokethrowaway wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his point is that the immune response from the vaccine is lower than from just getting covid and the risks from getting covid for children are really low. Still, I don't think it makes much of a difference either way, especially for kids who don't have much to fear from covid.

"immune response from the vaccine is lower than from just getting covid" {{citation needed}} My point is that this is unsubstantiated. And it does make a big difference, because this reduces the likelihood of children going through multiple periods of infectivity: the fewer times children are infectious to others, on average, the more herd immunity we have, collectively, against SARS-CoV-2.

I would agree with the other sibling reply that asking for citation for natural immunity vs vaccine protection is a bit like asking for a citation for claiming that frozen water floats. Sure, you could prove it but it's a well accepted understanding in epidemiology and virology. It's only lately been.... Politicized.

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#16

Post by abduhl »

epgui wrote: post #4
abduhl wrote: post #3

So the long Covid we’ve been afraid of for our children this whole time has actually been long term immunity? How ironic that our own push to vaccinate and save our children could put them in a worse position immunity-wise. Like rain on your wedding day.

Biochemist here: your claim that vaccination puts children in a worse position is neither supported by this paper, nor substantiated by any other data point to the best of my knowledge.

The paper itself asks the question I’ve suggested if you read between the lines: “COVID-19 vaccines are now being administered widely to adult populations and are also being delivered to children in some countries. Therefore, it is imperative to understand the profile of SARS-CoV-2-specific immune responses in children after natural infection to inform vaccination strategy.”

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#17

Post by johnchristopher »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #5
mikeyouse wrote: post #2

Finally some glimmers of hope in moving past Covid.. if Omicron continues on its current track of highly infectious but less serious —- and infection confers reactive immunity to a variety of strains, we could be closer to the endemic but manageable end game. Good vaccines + mild severity illness are basically the best case. What a stroke of luck that we are here vs a more infectious strain of Delta or some other nig…

Indeed! I really hope governments will start recognising this and give us back our freedom. Media messages and restrictions are still pretty negative, despite the lack of severity. I don't know how can they talk about another lockdown. Delta also had lower mortality than the first wave: this was confirmed by some fact-checkers and not by others (depending on how alarmist the fact-checker is) but looking at numbers, i…

> It seems to be an evolutionary trend where the virus mutations that are successful became more transmissible and less deadly (probably because a dead host doesn't spread as much as an alive one).

Covid spreads while still being non-symptomatic so that explanation doesn't stand that much. Flu is not getting milder.

Also, how many times more do you think you can get hit in the face by Manny Pacquiao instead of Mike Tyson and survive because his punches are milder ?

How many times can we keep catching mild covid and escape long term damages (edit: and death and everything in between) ?

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#18

Post by chana_masala »

abduhl wrote: post #9
epgui wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"immune response from the vaccine is lower than from just getting covid" {{citation needed}} My point is that this is unsubstantiated. And it does make a big difference, because this reduces the likelihood of children going through multiple periods of infectivity: the fewer times children are infectious to others, on average, the more herd immunity we have, collectively, against SARS-CoV-2.

Quoted post unavailable.

When you're already late...

I appreciate the humor and I totally agree with your point

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#19

Post by abduhl »

epgui wrote: post #11
abduhl wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I have no idea what you mean. I believe (and at least I was hoping that) my comment was helpful.

Your comment was made intending to shut down discussion by appealing to authority rather than engaging in the substance of the discussion. Note that the last large paragraph you wrote which does engage with the discussion was added via an edit. This was the entirety of your original post:

“{{citation needed}}

My point is that this is unsubstantiated.”

Re: Children develop robust and sustained cross-reactive immunity after Covid

#20

Post by epgui »

chana_masala wrote: post #15
epgui wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"immune response from the vaccine is lower than from just getting covid" {{citation needed}} My point is that this is unsubstantiated. And it does make a big difference, because this reduces the likelihood of children going through multiple periods of infectivity: the fewer times children are infectious to others, on average, the more herd immunity we have, collectively, against SARS-CoV-2.

I would agree with the other sibling reply that asking for citation for natural immunity vs vaccine protection is a bit like asking for a citation for claiming that frozen water floats. Sure, you could prove it but it's a well accepted understanding in epidemiology and virology. It's only lately been.... Politicized.

This is pretty close to my area of expertise, and I don't think this is a well established principle at all.
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