Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Systemd 250 Released

lwn.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 204 posts

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#71

Post by lmm »

42jd wrote: post #30
trabant00 wrote: post #13

Work hard and solve a big, complex set of problems. Solve them well. Offer the solution as free open source. Work some more to offer extra functionality and fix the bugs. Become the internet's villain. Come up with a commercial solution to a simple problem. Ex: file sharing or password management. Make it slow, insecure, privacy violating, lose people's data. Make millions, become a hero.

As someone who has learned Linux/Unix just the past few months using a systemd based distro, I find it a breeze to use. Great documentation, FOSS, and really easy to pick up. I just don’t understand why there is so much dislike thrown around when that energy can be focused elsewhere on truly bad behavior/software. And from my understanding, there are distros out there that don’t use systemd for those who dislike it t…

If forcibly "updating" my system so that it doesn't boot doesn't count as "truly bad behavior/software", I don't know what does. The difference between systemd and outright ransomware is only a matter of degree (frankly I'd prefer paying a bit of cash to having to learn a new set of config files and admin commands because someone decided they didn't like the old ones).

(I don't particularly blame him for the specific non-booting bug, but I do blame him for the arrogance. Everyone makes mistakes, but most people learn from them and develop a bit of humility. Pottering continues to break people's computers every couple of years)

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#72

Post by toast0 »

starklevnertz wrote: post #9

I just want to pre-empt the inevitable bitching about systemd to say I think it’s awesome and incredibly useful and consistent and powerful and I’d take it any day over the mess of stuff that filled systemd’s duties before. Sure it isn’t perfect, but what software is? And let me ask a question, if systemd is crap, why does every major distro use it? If it was truly crap then surely the distro builders would use the a…

> And let me ask a question, if systemd is crap, why does every major distro use it? If it was truly crap then surely the distro builders would use the alternative?

If Windows is crap, why does every system builder ship the majority of their machines with it? Why bother with a different desktop than Windows? Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good.

Building a distro is a lot of work already, and avoiding systemd takes a lot of effort these days. Plus, there seems to be a lot of people who like systemd, so if you want curmudgeons like me (well, probably not me, I'm going to FreeBSD instead; I understand there may be some sort of fancy rc replacement in the works there, but I presume it won't break the things I expect to work, and it won't subsume half of base) and people who like systemd, then you've got to do twice the work, and everybody will ask you why you're pushing against the tide.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#73

Post by dschuetz »

sgaduuw wrote: post #59
dschuetz wrote: post #22

If homed makes it into the major distributions I'm done with mainstream Linux.

genuine question: what's so bad about homed to jump ship? can't you just disable it and not look back?

What do you mean "jump ship"? There are plenty of Linux distributions that still let you choose.

Genuine question though: why didn't Lennart and his gang just fork some Linux distribution for their ideas? Why invade everywhere else instead? Anybody ask them that?

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#74

Post by Spivak »

lbotos wrote: post #21
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would anyone care to explain to someone who isn't 1337 in the inner workings of Linux, why systemd makes modern Linux not very UNIXY anymore and why everyone seems to hate it to death?

Linux via Unix: Do one thing, and do it well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy Systemd: Not that. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29670980 for an example.

I really don’t think having timers is the best example of this. systemd at it’s core is a resource monitor — a tool that sets up and babysits different types of things — processes, mounts, sockets, scheduled tasks, devices, etc. and manages the dependencies that exist between them. It fits right in with the other stuff.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#75

Post by trabant00 »

dschuetz wrote: post #66
sjansen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much truth to what you say. I used Linux exclusively from January 2000 until April 2012. A lot has changed in that time, but out of all the changes the three I'm most thankful for are: (1) Xorg replacing XFree86 and making video "just work" (2) Pulse Audio replacing OSS and making audio "just work" (3) systemd replacing the dog's breakfast of scripting madness each distro built from scratch instead of col…

> (3) systemd replacing the dog's breakfast of scripting madness each distro built from scratch instead of collaborating Which goes completely against what Linux stands for - collaboration. The "scripting madness" as you call it was actually completely transparent - if the scripting was bad, you were free to fix it. But now you have to issue a bug report when systemd does something stupid and it's not even your fault…

Administering hundreds of linux servers is my job and has been for the past 20 years. Fixing bash scripts left and right was a nightmare. I love bash, but not for this. The right tool for the job and all that. Systemd made my job la lot easier. So yes, I do think Lennart does a great job.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#76

Post by 3np »

dschuetz wrote: post #56
trabant00 wrote: post #13

Work hard and solve a big, complex set of problems. Solve them well. Offer the solution as free open source. Work some more to offer extra functionality and fix the bugs. Become the internet's villain. Come up with a commercial solution to a simple problem. Ex: file sharing or password management. Make it slow, insecure, privacy violating, lose people's data. Make millions, become a hero.

Just you wait until Lennart and his gang changes LGPL to MIT.

That’d result in a fork for the major distros.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#78

Post by dschuetz »

3np wrote: post #29

systemd-networkd will now automatically configure routes to addresses specified in AllowedIPs=. This feature can be controlled via RouteTable= and RouteMetric= settings in [WireGuard] or [WireGuardPeer] sections. Wow, that’s a pretty significant breaking change that I’m surprised to see (and one I don’t really agree with; there was reasoning behind not doing that in the first place). This is going to bite most users…

Reading this the following comes to mind: Wow systemd breaks important things and solves non-problems, awesome, I love systemd!

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#79

Post by 3np »

lmm wrote: post #34
starklevnertz wrote: post #9

I just want to pre-empt the inevitable bitching about systemd to say I think it’s awesome and incredibly useful and consistent and powerful and I’d take it any day over the mess of stuff that filled systemd’s duties before. Sure it isn’t perfect, but what software is? And let me ask a question, if systemd is crap, why does every major distro use it? If it was truly crap then surely the distro builders would use the a…

> And let me ask a question, if systemd is crap, why does every major distro use it? If it was truly crap then surely the distro builders would use the alternative? Because it's tightly coupled to everything (particularly to the few profitable parts of linux - most open-source is maintained on a shoestring, so it's pretty cheap to take control over development of even vital low-level infrastructure). This is how syst…

> But it's toxic for the long term, because it undermines the whole point of using linux if you can't swap out pieces or maintain your own forks of individual components.

You can, though? And many distros do by default.

Don’t like systemd-boot? You can replace it with grub.

Don’t like systemd-networkd? You can replace it with networkctl. Want to use it but prefer to handle Wireguard tunnels with wg-quick? Fine!

Don’t like systemd-resolved? You can replace it with dnsmasq.

Don’t like systemd-cryptsetup? systemd won’t care if some other system takes care of your LUKS partitions.

Etc, etc.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#80

Post by scottlamb »

This release should have my small fix for a pet peeve: if any local filesystem failed to fsck, the system used to go into emergency mode even if the fsck entry was marked "nofail" or "noauto". It contradicted intuition and documentation. It came up rarely but was frustrating to have the system broken until you were physically there, even if you tried to avoid this exact behavior.

Now the system boots anyway, just as it would if the filesystem was entirely missing.

Post reply on HN