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Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

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Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#81

Post by bitcharmer »

ed_balls wrote: post #74
p_l wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social programs could be made to work. They don't because all other areas of government are broken, but they make for good lightning rod for attention, both negative and positive. There are some social programs that make no sense, like coal mining ones (we're at the point where I'd vote to have current coal miner wages frozen in exchange for closing the mines - i.e. everyone currently working underground would co…

The Central Airport makes sense. There are 0 big airports in this part of Europe. It could be used by 60mln people (Slovakia, Belarus, Ukraine etc..). It even makes sense for people in Berlin to use it. (Frankfurt - Moscow. 2000km without a big airport) Besides, you can close down WAW and use the land to expand the city. You also don't have to expand other airports, which are close to cities and cause massive noise p…

It makes absolutely zero sense as it is just too far away from business and tourist spots.

I reckon you're an avid supporter of PiS?

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#82

Post by pseudo0 »

tryauuum wrote: post #57
ajuc wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current government introduced 500 PLN a month (about 25% of median net salary) for each kid younger than 18. It was promoted as a solution for demographic problems, but it barely helped, what it did instead is persuade people who don't care about politics to vote PIS. That and reversing the unpopular (but necessary) retirement reforms of previous government made PIS very popular and they used that popularity to uncon…

I see. In Russia Putin also introduced some payments for kids this year (or even earlier)

So did Canada and the US... Vote-buying is a common strategy, not something unique to authoritarian governments. Especially with COVID giving a lot of governments carte blanche to run massive deficits, it appears to be easier than ever to implement.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#83

Post by White_Wolf »

jacquesm wrote: post #72
rjsw wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analogy isn't accurate, Poles in Britain still have EU passports so can move around as they wish. It looks like a fair number of people applied for settled status in the UK just in case they wanted to use it to work part of the year here. Brexit is bad but it is worse for native British people than those with EU passports.

> Brexit is bad but it is worse for native British people than those with EU passports. The Brits that I know in various European countries have been dealt with quite civilly, as opposed to some of the people that I know that had moved to the UK where they find themselves suddenly without rights after being solid contributors to that society, sometimes for decades. What makes you write this particular sentence?

>suddenly without rights after being solid contributors to that society, sometimes for decades.

This is a stretch by any measure. I'm an estern european in UK. Once I applied for ILR(Indefinite leave to remain) I can go and come with 0 problems. Not sure what "without rights" you are talking about but brexit doesn't bother me in any way.

We have plenty at work that arrived in uk around 2-3 years ago and they continue their lives without problems, go home for holidays and so on. Some work for us as self-empleyer/contractors. Not even those have any issues.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#84

Post by p_l »

ed_balls wrote: post #74
p_l wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social programs could be made to work. They don't because all other areas of government are broken, but they make for good lightning rod for attention, both negative and positive. There are some social programs that make no sense, like coal mining ones (we're at the point where I'd vote to have current coal miner wages frozen in exchange for closing the mines - i.e. everyone currently working underground would co…

The Central Airport makes sense. There are 0 big airports in this part of Europe. It could be used by 60mln people (Slovakia, Belarus, Ukraine etc..). It even makes sense for people in Berlin to use it. (Frankfurt - Moscow. 2000km without a big airport) Besides, you can close down WAW and use the land to expand the city. You also don't have to expand other airports, which are close to cities and cause massive noise p…

The central airport doesn't make sense because there are no airlines that will use it as hub (other than LOT, which can't even overload Okęcie), especially now that Hub&Spoke is reduced in prominence. To just get reasonable amount of people from Poland they'd have to close pretty much all other airports in Poland, which would cripple local travel (some trips I take would go back to >9h, or I'd have to fly to Berlin and take a Taxi).

Berlin is a corner case of national capital that is in aviation terms in the boonies. Frankfurt Auf Mein and Munich are big hubs because that's where Lufthansa has logistical bases. The 2000km distance doesn't do anything, that's a short hop for airliners. That means that Berlin will do profitable important routes direct... which happen to be mostly to airline hubs, with few exceptions.

So there's no reason for people from neighbouring countries to use it, it require artificially breaking other airports in Poland to have even a sliver of reason (easily debunked by anyone with idea of state of polish airports). It's whole existence happened because one man had an unresearched biased idea and the party jumps at his whim.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#85

Post by tsol »

praptak wrote: post #12

Israel banned Poland from using NSO spyware after this: https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,27895266,israel-bans-polish-int... "On November 25, the Times of Israel reported that the Israeli government has banned the sales of Pegasus to autocratic regimes, as well as to the governments of Poland and Hungary. The list of countries to which Israeli surveillance companies can sell their spyware has been reduced from 102 to 37.…

Isn't it possible(even likely) that they're just.. not telling the truth? I mean when you're in the business of hacking high level politicians, it's not unexpected that you would also lie a bit about how who you do that to.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#86

Post by jhgb »

miga wrote: post #35
praptak wrote: post #12

Israel banned Poland from using NSO spyware after this: https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,27895266,israel-bans-polish-int... "On November 25, the Times of Israel reported that the Israeli government has banned the sales of Pegasus to autocratic regimes, as well as to the governments of Poland and Hungary. The list of countries to which Israeli surveillance companies can sell their spyware has been reduced from 102 to 37.…

This happened November 2021, while the software was used to attack public prosecutor and advocate in 2019. That means that they never reviewed the targets, and only reacted after the NGOs published a list of illegal attacks. (Eavesdropping advocate is illegal under Polish law.)

I should hope that eavesdropping anyone is illegal under Polish law.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#87

Post by jacquesm »

White_Wolf wrote: post #83
jacquesm wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Brexit is bad but it is worse for native British people than those with EU passports. The Brits that I know in various European countries have been dealt with quite civilly, as opposed to some of the people that I know that had moved to the UK where they find themselves suddenly without rights after being solid contributors to that society, sometimes for decades. What makes you write this particular sentence?

>suddenly without rights after being solid contributors to that society, sometimes for decades. This is a stretch by any measure. I'm an estern european in UK. Once I applied for ILR(Indefinite leave to remain) I can go and come with 0 problems. Not sure what "without rights" you are talking about but brexit doesn't bother me in any way. We have plenty at work that arrived in uk around 2-3 years ago and they continue…

There are countless stories of people who have had to go through the most absurd contortions in order to be allowed to stay in the UK. I'm happy that that didn't happen to you but don't dismiss this as 'a stretch by any measure' because things worked smoothly for you.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#88

Post by insiinsi »

Claude_Shannon wrote: post #4

We have a meme - "when there is a pandemic and you don't know whether to close schools or cementaries, so you close Giertych". It is almost a tradition at this moment - cases are rising? Quick, arrest him! Okay, on a serious note - this won't change anything. Poland is very polarised right now politically. PiS voters won't care as long as the state gives them money, and the rest already won't vote for them no matter…

>PiS voters won't care as long as the state gives them money

TBH, I'm kinda tired of this "PiS voters are state dependants" notion. Sure, it's heavily popular in rural religious east but there's also a certain urban demographic that's being underrepresented by other parties. I'm in the 25-30 yo bracket, Warsaw, BSc summa cum laude, three foreign languages, top 1% earner (which is not that hard to achieve in Poland working in modern tech). If I were to vote today, I'd either skip the vote or vote for PiS. Also got some like-minded friends. Anecdotal evidence, sure. It's also a case of "but all of my polls showed Hillary and Remain over Trump and Brexit".

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#89

Post by ed_balls »

bitcharmer wrote: post #81
ed_balls wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Central Airport makes sense. There are 0 big airports in this part of Europe. It could be used by 60mln people (Slovakia, Belarus, Ukraine etc..). It even makes sense for people in Berlin to use it. (Frankfurt - Moscow. 2000km without a big airport) Besides, you can close down WAW and use the land to expand the city. You also don't have to expand other airports, which are close to cities and cause massive noise p…

It makes absolutely zero sense as it is just too far away from business and tourist spots. I reckon you're an avid supporter of PiS?

What does it mean "just too far away". It's gonna be much closer than a lot of airports e.g. London Stansted

I do not support any party

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#90

Post by praptak »

jhgb wrote: post #86
miga wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened November 2021, while the software was used to attack public prosecutor and advocate in 2019. That means that they never reviewed the targets, and only reacted after the NGOs published a list of illegal attacks. (Eavesdropping advocate is illegal under Polish law.)

I should hope that eavesdropping anyone is illegal under Polish law.

Obviously it is, by default. I think GP meant there is no legal way to obtain a warrant to eavesdrop on an attorney.
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