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Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

apnews.com

71–80 of 103 posts

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#71
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Poles already left, many still will. It's a never ending brain drain since 2004.

where do you go to? Brexit Britain or MAGA Murica? Running away is not a good, long term solution.

It's not so much running away as much as it is wanting to create a better life for yourself and your family. There are many more options than the UK or the USA, Polish immigrants can be found all over Europe.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#72
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poles who moved to Britain because they were all part of the EU and there was economic opportunity are now an entirely different status in Britain. Like an Oklahoman coming to California as an American, and then finding they're not anymore.

Your analogy isn't accurate, Poles in Britain still have EU passports so can move around as they wish. It looks like a fair number of people applied for settled status in the UK just in case they wanted to use it to work part of the year here. Brexit is bad but it is worse for native British people than those with EU passports.

> Brexit is bad but it is worse for native British people than those with EU passports.

The Brits that I know in various European countries have been dealt with quite civilly, as opposed to some of the people that I know that had moved to the UK where they find themselves suddenly without rights after being solid contributors to that society, sometimes for decades.

What makes you write this particular sentence?

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#73
post #12

Israel banned Poland from using NSO spyware after this: https://wyborcza.pl/7,173236,27895266,israel-bans-polish-int... "On November 25, the Times of Israel reported that the Israeli government has banned the sales of Pegasus to autocratic regimes, as well as to the governments of Poland and Hungary. The list of countries to which Israeli surveillance companies can sell their spyware has been reduced from 102 to 37.…

> banned the sales of Pegasus to autocratic regimes, as well as to the governments of Poland and Hungary. So I guess Poland and Hungary are not autocratic regimes, from Israel's POV.

I think you're seeing a distinction the authors of the AP article, one of whom is based in Poland, felt like they needed to make.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#74
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still doesn't work as all those social programs are unsustainable from fiscal viewpoint. It's all financed by debt and inflation.

The social programs could be made to work. They don't because all other areas of government are broken, but they make for good lightning rod for attention, both negative and positive. There are some social programs that make no sense, like coal mining ones (we're at the point where I'd vote to have current coal miner wages frozen in exchange for closing the mines - i.e. everyone currently working underground would co…

The Central Airport makes sense. There are 0 big airports in this part of Europe. It could be used by 60mln people (Slovakia, Belarus, Ukraine etc..). It even makes sense for people in Berlin to use it. (Frankfurt - Moscow. 2000km without a big airport)

Besides, you can close down WAW and use the land to expand the city. You also don't have to expand other airports, which are close to cities and cause massive noise pollutions.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#75
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analogy isn't accurate, Poles in Britain still have EU passports so can move around as they wish. It looks like a fair number of people applied for settled status in the UK just in case they wanted to use it to work part of the year here. Brexit is bad but it is worse for native British people than those with EU passports.

> Brexit is bad but it is worse for native British people than those with EU passports. The Brits that I know in various European countries have been dealt with quite civilly, as opposed to some of the people that I know that had moved to the UK where they find themselves suddenly without rights after being solid contributors to that society, sometimes for decades. What makes you write this particular sentence?

By "native", I mean someone with a UK passport living in the UK at the cut-off date of Jan 2021. They are now unable to work in the EU without a work permit for a specific job.

In theory, a Pole who applied for and got "settled status" in the UK can move around to work just as they could before Brexit. I have no idea how well applying for this works though.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#76
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Poles already left, many still will. It's a never ending brain drain since 2004.

where do you go to? Brexit Britain or MAGA Murica? Running away is not a good, long term solution.

most commonly now - Germany, if you're able to - Canada, if you don't have valuable skills - Netherlands.

That being said... if you have a good job, like in IT, you're better off remaining in Poland. You just have to grit your teeth.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#77

We have a meme - "when there is a pandemic and you don't know whether to close schools or cementaries, so you close Giertych". It is almost a tradition at this moment - cases are rising? Quick, arrest him! Okay, on a serious note - this won't change anything. Poland is very polarised right now politically. PiS voters won't care as long as the state gives them money, and the rest already won't vote for them no matter…

> so you close Giertych It's mindblowing how skillful and cunning he was in avoiding any repercussions, including being freed without paying the bail. For an average person such problems would be beginning of an end, courts would cut off any appeals instantly. Gods are untouchable regardless of the side they are standing.

tbh he is an asshole of a big kind, nowadays people seem to forget that it is due to him that we have nationalists in Sejm, he was the first to introduce him - and he lead ONR to a relative rise.

The only reason why he isn't on the side of PiS or Konfederacja is that he hates Kaczynski for personal reason. And vice versa.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#78
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Brexit is bad but it is worse for native British people than those with EU passports. The Brits that I know in various European countries have been dealt with quite civilly, as opposed to some of the people that I know that had moved to the UK where they find themselves suddenly without rights after being solid contributors to that society, sometimes for decades. What makes you write this particular sentence?

By "native", I mean someone with a UK passport living in the UK at the cut-off date of Jan 2021. They are now unable to work in the EU without a work permit for a specific job. In theory, a Pole who applied for and got "settled status" in the UK can move around to work just as they could before Brexit. I have no idea how well applying for this works though.

Ah, you mean for Brits to go to work outside of the UK now versus someone originally from Poland who would want to go to work somewhere else in the EU. Right, but that's mirrored by how hard it would be for someone else from some EU country to come to work in the UK now. The UK very explicitly negotiated for that.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#79
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "native", I mean someone with a UK passport living in the UK at the cut-off date of Jan 2021. They are now unable to work in the EU without a work permit for a specific job. In theory, a Pole who applied for and got "settled status" in the UK can move around to work just as they could before Brexit. I have no idea how well applying for this works though.

Ah, you mean for Brits to go to work outside of the UK now versus someone originally from Poland who would want to go to work somewhere else in the EU. Right, but that's mirrored by how hard it would be for someone else from some EU country to come to work in the UK now. The UK very explicitly negotiated for that.

The thread suggested that Poles in the UK had lost freedom of movement, I'm just pointing out that this isn't the case.

Re: Polish opposition duo hacked with NSO spyware

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has a big impact on the EU as well when an EU country start flouting the EU laws.

Apparently not, because the EU doesn't seem to be up for enforcing them.

I think they want to, but they seem to doubt the tools they have for enforcement. I suspect some of the COVID funds will be held back.

Edit: Actually they have already frozen 35 bn Euro. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/22/brussels-launc...

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