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Overemployed – Work Two Remote Jobs

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Re: Overemployed – Work Two Remote Jobs

#51

Post by ghaff »

ransom1538 wrote: post #41
betaby wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How that works for folks with CXX titles? Whey often 'sit' in multiple boards. Also recently I was re-checking my contract, and there is nothing said there 'only job', I think that would be illegal to put in a contract.

All you need to do is be open. Do not lie for money on the internet or mail. State you work for other companies, state you are on other boards, etc. When you lie to people for money is where things go really bad (at least in the US). (wire/mail fraud 941. 18 U.S.C. 1343).

I'm very careful about things I do on the side that are related to my day job and I'm very public with my management. In general, those things are seen as positives. But if I created any heartburn, I would generally pull back--or escalate it if I felt strongly.

I'm not going to take a big contracting contract with a potential competitor without discussing it with someone.

Re: Overemployed – Work Two Remote Jobs

#52

Post by ghaff »

betaby wrote: post #49
ransom1538 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you need to do is be open. Do not lie for money on the internet or mail. State you work for other companies, state you are on other boards, etc. When you lie to people for money is where things go really bad (at least in the US). (wire/mail fraud 941. 18 U.S.C. 1343).

Why one should disclose that? And how and why that's fraud? Do people in US disclose things like 'I flip burgers during the day' - 35 hours/week and also 'work as an office cleaner on weekends and evenings' - another 35 hours/week. Technically those are two times full employments. I'm not from US and may lack some details how it works there. My example above it not theoretical I know person who works like that,non-US…

Those are not conflicts of interest. (Or shouldn't be.)

Working "full time" for Google and "full time" for some startup in a related area probably is. (If the startup is an unrelated area related to medicine maybe but I'd still expect both companies to be aware of the situation.)

Re: Overemployed – Work Two Remote Jobs

#53

Post by betaby »

nojito wrote: post #47
betaby wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How that works for folks with CXX titles? Whey often 'sit' in multiple boards. Also recently I was re-checking my contract, and there is nothing said there 'only job', I think that would be illegal to put in a contract.

Sitting on a board isn’t a job. It’s an advisory role that needs to be cleared by both the board your sitting on and your main company’s board. And almost all contracts include a conflict of interest section. Perhaps a lowly startup might not.

What is the 'job' then? Then the only thing left is to switch from 'job' to 'sitting' to make the thing legal, right?

Re: Overemployed – Work Two Remote Jobs

#54

Post by [deleted] »

betaby wrote: post #49
ransom1538 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you need to do is be open. Do not lie for money on the internet or mail. State you work for other companies, state you are on other boards, etc. When you lie to people for money is where things go really bad (at least in the US). (wire/mail fraud 941. 18 U.S.C. 1343).

Why one should disclose that? And how and why that's fraud? Do people in US disclose things like 'I flip burgers during the day' - 35 hours/week and also 'work as an office cleaner on weekends and evenings' - another 35 hours/week. Technically those are two times full employments. I'm not from US and may lack some details how it works there. My example above it not theoretical I know person who works like that,non-US…

[deleted]

Re: Overemployed – Work Two Remote Jobs

#56

Post by ghaff »

nojito wrote: post #47
betaby wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How that works for folks with CXX titles? Whey often 'sit' in multiple boards. Also recently I was re-checking my contract, and there is nothing said there 'only job', I think that would be illegal to put in a contract.

Sitting on a board isn’t a job. It’s an advisory role that needs to be cleared by both the board your sitting on and your main company’s board. And almost all contracts include a conflict of interest section. Perhaps a lowly startup might not.

It's a "job" whether a lot of board members take it as seriously as they should or not. I'm (unpaid) on the board of a non-profit. But, yes, presumably if a CxO gets an offer to sit on the board of a major company, especially one in the same industry, they would seek the approval of their own board.

Re: Overemployed – Work Two Remote Jobs

#57

Post by ghaff »

temp8964 wrote: post #48
epicureanideal wrote: post #39

This can only work at extremely dysfunctional companies with incompetent management. I suppose there's an opportunity here for some unethical people to get some money from those companies until they collapse. In any reasonably well-run company these people would be fired quickly. Gordon Gecko might say these people are performing service to the public by helping poorly managed companies go bankrupt faster, but it's s…

> This can only work at extremely dysfunctional companies with incompetent management. Not really. There are many job positions require tons of institutional knowledge of the data system and the code base, but does not require lots of everyday work. And some of the jobs are seasonable. A senior worker can really do tons of outside jobs.

Maybe it's my bubble, but I could maybe do tons of things unrelated to tech but relevant people in tech are aware of who I am and who I work for. (i.e. I could maybe carve out lots of hours to do various things but I couldn't (and wouldn't) actually have another full-timeish tech job.

Re: Overemployed – Work Two Remote Jobs

#58

Post by Smeevy »

I had a new hire last year that did this. He interviewed pretty well and we brought him on as contract-to-hire through a placement company.

We're a small company, so it was pretty easy to have everything set up for him on day one to begin contributing. The first day was spent getting to know other members of the team and we were working to get him familiar with the codebase of a new application that we were working on. We had identified 10 or so tickets, new data entry pages and some UI bug fixes, that we thought would be a gentle introduction to the new app and walked him through a couple.

The first couple of days were okay, but I started observing strange behavior. He didn't contribute in meetings, but he was very outspoken when explaining why this project was substantially more difficult than we'd thought. Also, he kept coming back to the need for us to completely throw out all of the prior work because it was "all wrong." The explanations never got any deeper than that, though. I also noted a couple of exchanges in which I found his behavior towards our project manager to be somewhat belligerent when discussing project details.

At first, I just figured he was carrying some of his previous shop with him and that that was how he was used to communicating. I gave him a week to prototype his architectural recommendations and pulled him off of all meetings so that he could focus on it. This also gave me a convenient way to separate him and the project manager from further confrontation while I examined the situation.

The week passed and his prototype looked like he'd worked on it for about an hour. I asked him if he thought this was working out and he admitted that it wasn't. I then asked him if he wanted to terminate the contract and he jumped at the opportunity.

Speaking with the placement firm later that day, they apologized and said that he had admitted to them that he'd been working another full-time job and that he couldn't keep it up anymore. They offered to forgo charging me for the last two weeks. We still lost a substantial amount of time on the project.

Start to finish, this whole episode took a little over three weeks and we were lucky to get out of it so quickly. The kicker was that I was able to replace all of the shoddy code that this guy wrote over that period in one long Saturday evening.

I'm more afraid of hiring people I don't know now. There's no coding test that will tell you if someone is just going to lie right to your face every day.

Re: Overemployed – Work Two Remote Jobs

#59

Post by tehjoker »

I think if an economist looked at this they would say workers have identified areas of inefficiency in the economy and found a way fill the gap. However, if every person takes two jobs, that means there's 2x competition for jobs and will depress wages over time. Limited arbitrage opportunity. If you actually work two jobs at once at reasonable efficiency, the businesses aren't going to be paying for this, we are.

Re: Overemployed – Work Two Remote Jobs

#60

Post by xmprt »

omgitsabird wrote: post #33
seattle_spring wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people that make more than 7 figures with one job. Is your friend located intentionally or something? Otherwise I don't see the point.

Do you make seven figures with one job? I have zero friends that do.

Staff or experienced senior engineer at a company with stocks or options that have 2x to 3x since getting hired and it's pretty doable. Even large companies like Nvidia and Tesla have gone up significantly in just the last year. Without stock appreciation it's pretty hard though so it mostly comes down to luck.
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