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Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

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Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#331

Post by maxdo »

wolrah wrote: post #218
Datenstrom wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Tesla's release of their full self-driving beta and its performance in a recent CGP Grey video where it successfully navigates the most dangerous road in America[1] I think a lot of people are going to have to eat their hats on this stance very soon. I consider myself bullish on this tech, and I have worked closely with autonomous robotics, but I didn't expect it this soon. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d…

> where it successfully navigates the most dangerous road in America Twistiest, maybe. Most dangerous, not even close unless you or someone driving towards you do something dumb. Historically Autopilot's weak spots have been crappy/ambiguous road markings, low speed corners on high speed roads, and large vehicles stopped on/across the road. This video hit none of those points. The lane markings are clear, the posted…

your historical observations are irrelevant for FSD beta. It's a new system, it works amazing without markings on the road at all.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#332

Post by ghaff »

angry-sw-dev wrote: post #296
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying this, but I don't get it. The majority of your possessions spend most of their time sitting idle. Even if I just look at the higher value ones: my riding lawnmower gets used for a couple of hours every few weeks, my garden tractor/snowblower even less frequently, then I've got a trailer, a truck, miscellaneous tools, etc. I could rent every single one of these, but don't because the economics don't…

The lynchpin in these arguments is that you'll somehow be able to summon a vehicle on a moments notice and all your usage will still be less expensive than personal ownership. The cost will be low because no humans are involved... Except it didn't work for ZipCar or the rental agencies that have added hourly options -- sure it's not bad, but is it really pushing people out of car ownership? No... Ride sharing similar…

My observation in that all of these things (plus delivery services, Amazon, etc.) can make a difference at the margins. If someone doesn't have a daily commute (or has a reasonable transit or bicycle/walk option) and otherwise isn't transporting themselves, other family members, home improvement stuff, etc. on a daily or near-daily basis, collectively they may let a household do without a car (or at least a second car).

A couple I know in SF don't have a car but they seem to make a lot of use of cars in some form or other pretty regularly.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#333

Post by ljm »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #249
ljm wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was _a_ conspiracy, or at least Wikipedia refers to it as such: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp... . That is to say, there's enough there to suggest that this wasn't the free market answering solely to consumer demand.

Regardless of whether or not there was a conspiracy, I think the last 100 years of private vehicle ownership in the US have shown that solely due to the convenience, it would have happened anyway.

I don't think that follows, because you have to prove that car ownership would have increased the same way without any intervention by car manufacturers. You're treating it as a foregone conclusion.

If you follow the same 100 year trajectory in other countries, then you will see an uptick in car ownership for sure, and infrastructure adapts to support this (highways/freeways/motorways), but it's not nearly as drastic as it is stateside.

Of course, the US is a large place and even its states are larger than other countries. And it hasn't existed in its modern form for more than a couple of centuries whereas the civil infra on the other continents has been around for at least a full millennium and most likely longer than that (e.g. Roman roads in the UK that would date back well over 1000 years). So the US got the luxury of a blank slate and, well... see what you got from that.

At the same time...car manufacturers had the perfect opportunity to seize so they could sell more cars and thus have civil infrastructure designed around the fact that everyone has a car. If someone at that point in time had more money than Henry Ford they could have dumped it into trams and trains and the landscape would have been significantly changed.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#334

Post by sizzle »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #309
d0gsg0w00f wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part about this for me is that the Costco parking lot is already a cluster without having to add in the "show off my car to my brother in law" game to the mix. I avoid Costco like the plague because the experience is always bad for my mental health. I'd rather pay a few extra bucks to avoid oblivious giant cart drivers, having to show multiple forms of ID , having my receipt validated before I can leave, ha…

I wouldn't disagree with your experience complaint, but Costco exists precisely because it doesn't care about the "shopping experience". If you go to Costco, you forgo the right to complain about the "shopping experience" because you are explicitly choosing something with a bad one in exchange for very cheap goods. Walmart and Target: slightly better experience, slightly more expensive. Supermarkets and Malls: better…

Walmart parking lots are equally busy and hard to navigate in my experience

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#336

Post by somerandomqaguy »

Datenstrom wrote: post #209
015a wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty strongly of the position that high levels of self-driving are impossible for artificial intelligences to attain, because they're built by corporations. Driving is VERY risky, and involves an irreducible assumption of both risk and liability on behalf of the driver. Humans are natural risk-takers. Corporations are not; and any artificial intelligence a corporation produces is always, at some level of meanin…

From Tesla's release of their full self-driving beta and its performance in a recent CGP Grey video where it successfully navigates the most dangerous road in America[1] I think a lot of people are going to have to eat their hats on this stance very soon. I consider myself bullish on this tech, and I have worked closely with autonomous robotics, but I didn't expect it this soon. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d…

I'm really not sure how that is at all challenging for computer vision to handle. Conditions like these are probably more along the lines to challenge self driving tech:

- British Columbia Highway 5 (Coquihalla Highway) Daytime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIF79ZlWcOI

- The Coquihalla Highway at night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM3BPOLVoUg

- Alberta Highway 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re-Ap5fboi8

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#337

Post by Ajedi32 »

josephcsible wrote: post #321
Ajedi32 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind there's a significant difference between a dealership using their knowledge of the car to assist with repossession, and a manufacturer demonstrating that you never really had control of your own car in the first place. It just feels like a betrayal. Your car is loyal to the manufacturer, not to you. It will act in a manner directly opposed to your best interests as the owner if company that sold it to you…

We want things to be "loyal" to their owners. But the key point in this story is that if you don't pay for your car, then you're not the owner of it.

I'd have no issue with the lienholder having ultimate control of car until the loan is paid off. As I said in my initial comment, that's completely beside the point.

The problem here is that Model 3s are apparently "loyal" to their manufacturer rather than the owner, regardless of who that owner is (whether that be a lienholder, the car's "user", or anyone else that's not Tesla).

That Tesla used that misplaced loyalty to give the car back to the lienholder in this case is irrelevant to my point.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#339

Post by josephcsible »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #337
josephcsible wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We want things to be "loyal" to their owners. But the key point in this story is that if you don't pay for your car, then you're not the owner of it.

I'd have no issue with the lienholder having ultimate control of car until the loan is paid off. As I said in my initial comment, that's completely beside the point. The problem here is that Model 3s are apparently "loyal" to their manufacturer rather than the owner, regardless of who that owner is (whether that be a lienholder, the car's "user", or anyone else that's not Tesla). That Tesla used that misplaced loyalt…

Are you okay with manufacturers helping with repossessions by cutting new physical keys for non-connected cars? If so, how is this any different?

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#340

Post by defaultprimate »

mschuster91 wrote: post #316
defaultprimate wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this capability should never, ever be in the hands of the state, but don't extrapolate isolated instances and debunked statistics about the police as truths. Your own article demonstrates one of the major flaws of the domestic violence statistic, but doesn't discuss the most egregious methodological flaw: the criteria used for domestic violence, which includes shouting in the cited study. Cops are source…

> Cops are sourced from the general population They are notably not. Usually, immigrants are drastically under-represented compared to general population (at least in Germany, you have to hold German or European citizenship to join the police force). > so incidence rates need to be compared to the general population Oh hell no. Police officers act on behalf of the government and with powers that are both far greater…

My point still stands. The fact that police exhibit extremely low detrimental behavior rates compared to the general population illustrates that they are held to much higher standards.

Police in the US have far higher post secondary education rates than the general population. Over half have a bachelor's and over 80% have at least an associate's. And that's overall. Many states and larger localities require post secondary education, particularly in urban, higher crime areas.

>but they are orders of magnitude better than the trigger happy...

Can you prove it? Tens of millions of police interactions a year and less than a thousand deaths is pretty damn good and not at all indicative of the narrative you're spewing, especially when you account for how much violence the police experience at the hands of criminals. Sounds to me like you've bought into a narrative completely unsupported by data.

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