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Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

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Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#151

Post by somehnguy »

driverdan wrote: post #128
authed wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From 2014: Ford Exec: 'We Know Everyone Who Breaks The Law' Thanks To Our GPS In Your Car https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1 I too wish that there would be an easy way to disconnect my car (it is of zero use to me).

Take the SIM card out. Or better yet, don't buy a car that tracks you.

>Or better yet, don't buy a car that tracks you.

I don't like this type of advice as everyday technology gets more evil. It's shifting the blame to the consumer instead of the makers of the evil, and it's nearly impossible to follow. I'm a software developer/tech nerd and couldn't tell you which cars do and don't track you, and we expect the average purchaser to know..? It's not like the window sticker will say 'hey this car tracks you', that detail will be in the middle of a 30 page dense legal speak document that almost nobody reads.

It's very similar to when a large food conglomerate does something terrible and people try to boycott. I'm completely aware of the terrible things food company x did and try to be at least somewhat informed with my purchasing, but food company x has 50 subsidiaries who have 50 subsidiaries, etc. I don't know about you but when I go shopping I don't have all day to google on my phone if the specific product I'm looking at is 4 levels down from evil company x. And I have a relatively large amount of free time in my life at the moment - it's a completely hopeless endeavor for someone with kids or other responsibilities that significantly cut down on their idle time.

If only our government would step in and you know...stop companies from getting away with evil things.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#152

Post by dylan604 »

ctdonath wrote: post #134
chrisseaton wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> someone with the key can now remote summon the car Cars with remote summons features today basically just crawl forward a few metres to help you get out of a parking spot. They aren't self-driving across town to a repossession lot, if that's what you're thinking.

A first step. Won’t be long before the car goes to the repossession lot itself. Tesla is evolving country music: not only will your girl leave you, so will your truck.

What if your dog is in the truck? Can you then go after them for kidnapping?

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#153

Post by tiahura »

zo1 wrote: post #55
simonh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's quite right, you own the vehicle legally and you owe the bank the loan. However as soon as a repossession takes place the legal title to the vehicle does change.

It's not universal. Some places have specific regulations that govern this and so they specifically carve out a weird "ownership but non-ownership" scenario. E.g. mortgages here in South Africa. Other places yes it's in your name but you put it up as collateral on the loan itself, etc etc etc. Bottom line, the government just makes it obscure and difficult to determine the real dynamics between the two parties, and t…

“"ownership but non-ownership" scenario. E.g. mortgages here in South Africa.”

Some states in the US also handle mortgages like this.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#154

Post by ec109685 »

chippiewill wrote: post #7
aneutron wrote: post #4

While this is an "interesting" story, I'd love to get some verification on it. It sounds plausible, but almost illegal ? I'm in EU so don't know how really things work over there, but I would assume Tesla would need a judicial order siding with the bank to be able to do this ? I mean it's probably not the wild west over there. Or is it ?

I think the mention of a bank is misleading. I think in this case the owner organised finance with Tesla directly. When he failed to pay Tesla on time they repo'd the car themselves.

Tesla loans are through a bank, but I think they use their own financing arm for leases, so perhaps this was a delinquent lease.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#155

Post by authed »

driverdan wrote: post #128
authed wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From 2014: Ford Exec: 'We Know Everyone Who Breaks The Law' Thanks To Our GPS In Your Car https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1 I too wish that there would be an easy way to disconnect my car (it is of zero use to me).

Take the SIM card out. Or better yet, don't buy a car that tracks you.

> Take the SIM card out

my phone can communicate without a sim card (at least with 911)... and I have no clue if my car has a sim card or if it needs one.

> don't buy a car that tracks you

For that, you probably need to buy a car that is at least 20 years old?

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#156

Post by dentemple »

dylan604 wrote: post #152
ctdonath wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A first step. Won’t be long before the car goes to the repossession lot itself. Tesla is evolving country music: not only will your girl leave you, so will your truck.

What if your dog is in the truck? Can you then go after them for kidnapping?

Dogs aren't considered people (in the US), so it would be considered stolen property _at best_ if this were an actual thing.

Likely, they'll pass the animal on to a shelter and give you the info as to where to pick them up. It wouldn't be considered "stealing".

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#157

Post by notreallyserio »

ctdonath wrote: post #134
chrisseaton wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> someone with the key can now remote summon the car Cars with remote summons features today basically just crawl forward a few metres to help you get out of a parking spot. They aren't self-driving across town to a repossession lot, if that's what you're thinking.

A first step. Won’t be long before the car goes to the repossession lot itself. Tesla is evolving country music: not only will your girl leave you, so will your truck.

I'm hopeful that by the time cars can be automatically repossessed without a human operator they'll have set up a network of on-demand rentals and I won't have to worry about car ownership and all the nonsense it entails.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#158

Post by Dracophoenix »

netcan wrote: post #32
staticassertion wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, though I think that ideally companies are advocates for their customers. For example, companies have to turn information over to courts, but they can push back on some, and publish transparency reports for others. Yes, they have to comply with the law, but imo a company has an obligation to advocate for their customers.

To take a contradicting pov... I think this sort of expectation/ideal has done us more harm than helped. As advocates, companies are fickle and unreliable. Presenting as advocates, companies always stress how aligned their interests are with customers'. We'll, that's true until it isn't. Once it isn't, it flips. That's useless. Better to keep in mind that companies aren't your advocates. They're your salesman.

The principle-agent problem is not just limited to companies. Everything you've written applies to people in general. Advocacy in and and of itself is a fickle enterprise.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#159

Post by Moru »

jchw wrote: post #138
ctdonath wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A first step. Won’t be long before the car goes to the repossession lot itself. Tesla is evolving country music: not only will your girl leave you, so will your truck.

I don’t usually vote up comments that are mostly humorous on HN, but there’s always an exception. To me the problem isn’t that they might, but that they can. I guess the fault is technically on the person who rented something under terrible terms, but the problem to me is that over time terrible terms seem to win out over reasonable ones. Not to mention, if Tesla is capable of doing this for rentals, I have to assume…

Or that any hacker that gets into Teslas system will have a field day.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#160

Post by bitcharmer »

_fat_santa wrote: post #146
Quindecillion wrote: post #130

Has anyone "jailbroke" a Telsa to remove this type of stuff?

It's two sides to the same coin. The stuff that makes this possible is the same stuff that makes all the futuristic tech on a Tesla possible. So you could theoretically jailbreak it (Rich Rebuilds probably figured it out by now) disabling the stuff that would allow this to happen would also disable half the futuristic features on your car.

> disabling the stuff that would allow this to happen would also disable half the futuristic features on your car.

Why?

When you jailbreak an iPhone you don't loose features.

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