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Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

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Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#121

Post by kwhitefoot »

Joker_vD wrote: post #29
Jaruzel wrote: post #12

The main issue here I guess, is Tesla assisting the bailiffs. Bailiffs (here in the UK) have certain legal rights to enter and repossess your house and/or remove property you haven't fully paid for. They are granted this right via a case-by-case court order. If Telsa are also granted the rights within the court order to assist the bailiffs, then presumably it would be a fully legal action. At the end of the day, you…

> If Telsa are also granted the rights within the court order to assist the bailiffs From what limited knowledge of law enforcement I have (and it's very little, I admit), it's reversed: everyone by default is legally obliged to assist a law officer, on their request, to enforce the law and order; there are some limits beyond which explicit court orders are required, but those limits are rather broad.

> everyone by default is legally obliged to assist a law officer,

Are bailiffs law officers in that sense?

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#122

Post by chrisseaton »

Retric wrote: post #95
Jaruzel wrote: post #12

The main issue here I guess, is Tesla assisting the bailiffs. Bailiffs (here in the UK) have certain legal rights to enter and repossess your house and/or remove property you haven't fully paid for. They are granted this right via a case-by-case court order. If Telsa are also granted the rights within the court order to assist the bailiffs, then presumably it would be a fully legal action. At the end of the day, you…

Most US car dealerships will make a new key for someone repossessing a car. As Tesla is the dealership this seems like the exact same situation, the only difference is someone with the key can now remote summon the car.

> someone with the key can now remote summon the car

Cars with remote summons features today basically just crawl forward a few metres to help you get out of a parking spot. They aren't self-driving across town to a repossession lot, if that's what you're thinking.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#123

Post by joncrocks »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #31
staticassertion wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, though I think that ideally companies are advocates for their customers. For example, companies have to turn information over to courts, but they can push back on some, and publish transparency reports for others. Yes, they have to comply with the law, but imo a company has an obligation to advocate for their customers.

Well, technically, the bank owns the car till you pay it off. So, maybe they are advocating for their customers?

This depends on the jurisdiction and the agreement you've entered into.

In general:

Lease - Finance company owns the asset, you are obliged to service the payments. You may have an option to transfer title at the end of the period (depending on jurisdiction).

Loan - You own the asset, secured against the asset.

(There are some UK/US-specfic product types due to difference in things like tax law)

Leasing (in general) is popular as it has tax-advantages for smaller businesses/individuals around depreciation, which can lead to good pricing for end lessee.

(source: Made software for the asset finance industry for a decade or so in the UK/EU + US)

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#124

Post by dev_tty01 »

LightG wrote: post #20

Holy sh!t ... reason 47 to not buy a Tesla.

The repossession has nothing to do with it being a Tesla. Cars are repossessed every day. The unlocking made it easier, but without that assistance, a repossessor would just drag it up a ramp onto a truck and drive off.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#125

Post by adventured »

fallingknife wrote: post #46
LightG wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my problem with it. Not that payments shouldn't be kept up to date. But that it moves decision making on the issue to a corporate entity a million miles away and you can bet there won't be any accounting for personal situations, or admin errors, or anything else. Your car will just be gone. Sorry, f@ck tesla on this.

If lenders had to take "personal situations" into account no loans would be made. Anyone can come up with a sob story.

That's the purpose of allowing sob stories by people that advocate for that approach. The real idea is to choke the system to death and crash it de facto.

That's how you get insane squatting laws where you can't remove people that are illegally occupying your property (house, apartment, etc) for years. The process becomes badly choked in the sob story process which the squatter takes advantage of.

And very obviously all that would happen if you allowed the sob story process to become common in auto loans, is a huge backlog of people would become delinquent and abuse it, knowing they can drag out the consequences for a very long time.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#126

Post by kube-system »

falcolas wrote: post #88
themitigating wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you finance a car through a bank the bank owns the car, they have the title (US).

No (or rather, I have never seen this where I live in the US), they have a lien on the title. You still have the title. Source: Trying to get a bank to remove the lien after it’s fully paid off can be a real source of frustration.

You will be listed as the owner on the title but it is not uncommon for the bank to physically hold the title.

The way all of this works varies by state though. Some states issue a title electronically when the lien is released.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#127

Post by mFixman »

aneutron wrote: post #4

While this is an "interesting" story, I'd love to get some verification on it. It sounds plausible, but almost illegal ? I'm in EU so don't know how really things work over there, but I would assume Tesla would need a judicial order siding with the bank to be able to do this ? I mean it's probably not the wild west over there. Or is it ?

This is a report based on a Facebook post by a random person telling a story about her repo friend who once told her that Tesla could help him get control of the car.

Until someone reports this happening first hand, I'm going to assume that either a lot of details are missing or that the story is straight-up fake.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#128

Post by driverdan »

authed wrote: post #101
prmoustache wrote: post #41

As a bicycle and old motorcycles user I am gobsmacked that so much people accept that the vehicule they are using is connected or regularly phone home to the manufacturer. I guess if you share all your life on facebook and instagram, why shouldn't you also give away all your errands to any third party. Is there at least a license agreement you are showned at and have to agree to upon delivery? Can you operate those v…

From 2014: Ford Exec: 'We Know Everyone Who Breaks The Law' Thanks To Our GPS In Your Car https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1 I too wish that there would be an easy way to disconnect my car (it is of zero use to me).

Take the SIM card out. Or better yet, don't buy a car that tracks you.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#129

Post by grishka »

auslegung wrote: post #102
grishka wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between owning something or renting it. When you rent something, there's a contract you sign that specifies what you can and can't do. You generally expect the owner to have the technical capability to enforce the contract in case you breach it. But when you own it, then no one else should retain any sort of control over it, period. It's yours only. (You obviously don't own something if you got i…

Agreed, but with DMCA (and probably other laws) our concept of ownership is gone. Any music one buys that has DMCA, isn’t owned it’s just rented, and yet most people don’t realize that. So there’s a precedence for thinking we own something when in practice we just rent it. I can see that happening with cars. For example the law that was just passed that new cars will have to come with alcohol detectors https://www.wa…

I'm specifically talking about the old-school, physical kind of ownership. Whether one could "own" infinitely copyable information at all is highly debatable.

> For example the law that was just passed that new cars will have to come with alcohol detectors

On the one hand, this is a welcome innovation because one is free to do whatever they want as long as that doesn't endanger others and drunk driving does endanger others quite a lot. On the other, if you own your car, what's to stop you from bypassing the detector like some people would bypass the seatbelt beeping thing?

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