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Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

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Re: Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

#51

Post by skuhn »

NomeChomsky wrote: post #36

Quoted post unavailable.

Your claim is directly contradicted by the abstract of the paper you linked to:

"We estimated an extra two (95% confidence interval (CI) 0, 3), one (95% CI 0, 2) and six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively, in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273. This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test."

1 shot of mRNA vaccine = 6 per 1 million = 0.0006%

2 shot of mRNA vaccine = 10 per 1 million = 0.001%

COVID infection = 40 per 1 million = 0.004%

COVID infection has a 4 times higher chance of myocarditis than the vaccine. It also has significantly higher risks of many other things, some of which are also touched on in the abstract.

Re: Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

#52

Post by CraigJPerry »

NomeChomsky wrote: post #36

Quoted post unavailable.

A double shot of moderna more than halved myocarditis vs getting covid according to your link?

>> We estimated an extra … six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with … mRNA-1273 … in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273

>> This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test.

Re: Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

#53

Post by aqme28 »

NomeChomsky wrote: post #36

Quoted post unavailable.

Did I misread or does this study say the opposite of what you said?

> We estimated an extra two (95% confidence interval (CI) 0, 3), one (95% CI 0, 2) and six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively, in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273. This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test.

So an increased risk of 16 per million after the vaccine + booster, and an increased risk of 40 per million after an infection.

Re: Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

#54

Post by rsfern »

NomeChomsky wrote: post #48
antocv wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the data per age group and per sex, when looking at 0-99 all 3 sexes does not tell the full story since 65+ have totally different risks from covid-19 than 20-29.

Quoted post unavailable.

This study isn’t based on VAERS data, it’s from the UK.

The design tracks their medical record system, under reporting shouldn’t be a big concern

Edit:

> We assessed the temporal association between COVID-19 vaccination and cardiac adverse events using hospital admissions with diagnoses of myocarditis or pericarditis, and cardiac arrhythmias.

Maybe there is differential reporting based on who shows up at the hospital with Covid vs just vaccine induced side effects, but it’s sort of hard to design a large scale study to pin this down. The methodology seems sound enough to fairly track at least those ill enough to go to the hospital

Re: Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

#55

Post by thaufeki »

gambiting wrote: post #41
thaufeki wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people keep saying this? I have literally never received a flu shot, they have always been reserved for the sick and elderly Why not, instead of shots, do these pharmaceutical companies not prioritise developing an effective at home treatment for the symptoms of Covid-19? It's very hard to see light at the end of this tunnel, which appears to be becoming a booster merry-go-round.

>>Why do people keep saying this? Because the population on HN is not homogeneus and different regions in the world approach the flu vaccine differently? In some countries it's completely free and it's normal to get it every year, and even in some countries where it isn't, there's only a nominal cost and usually the employer covers it - so most people get the flu shot too. Not a big deal at all. >> they have always b…

>>Or would you rather that they stopped the development of vaccines completely and focused just on the treatment of symptoms?

No, but surely it would be easier to produce an antiviral for home use that would alleviate the symptoms of Covid-19, rather than relying on the development of a vaccine, and then demanding almost universal uptake for it to work?

Then we could have had vaccines for the sick, elderly, immunocompromised and whoever else wanted them after a while, and treatment of symptoms for everyone else.

We knew, pretty much from the beginning, that Covid was here to stay. I would like to know what the path out of this pandemic is now, now that we still aren't discussing treatment and are talking about additional boosters.

Re: Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

#56

Post by NomeChomsky »

rsfern wrote: post #45
NomeChomsky wrote: post #36

Quoted post unavailable.

That’s not how I read the abstract of this paper. Moderna: (2, 8) + (7, 11) extra cases per million Covid: (38, 41) (95% confidence intervals)

See figure 2. Double shot of Moderna has higher chance of myocarditis than covid does. They do add this to the conclusions of the paper, but they defocus it by talking about the populations as one large unbroken dataset.

When looking at people under 40, the risks for myocarditis are higher amongst Moderna double shot patients than for covid infections.

Re: Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

#57

Post by incrudible »

rsfern wrote: post #45
NomeChomsky wrote: post #36

Quoted post unavailable.

That’s not how I read the abstract of this paper. Moderna: (2, 8) + (7, 11) extra cases per million Covid: (38, 41) (95% confidence intervals)

Averages are misleading. All the risk is concentrated in the group under 40, where it is higher for the vaccine.

Re: Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

#58

Post by podgaj »

CrazyCatDog wrote: post #26
crate_barre wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t lose your job for not getting the flu vaccine. Again, it’s an unprecedented situation and I’ll accept the mandate for the three shots, but this has to have an end at some point.

Clinics routinely require staff and physicians to be vaccinated against the flu lest there be an exemption on file. Granted this article shared that the rate is low, it also surfaced mandates for healthcare: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3020194/

I have never heard of a population wide mandate for a flu vaccine however.

And since 2004 the average effectiveness for the flu vaccine is about 40% so I guess if you are in a high risk group it might increase your survival a bit, but not enough effectiveness for a national mandate. The death rate of the flu is about 0.01% for all populations.

I mean, would you get a surgery that had a 40% success rate if your chance of dying without the surgery was 0.01%?

Re: Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

#59

Post by [deleted] »

gambiting wrote: post #34
amznbyebyebye wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it three? Why can’t they make it effective with one vaccine? Hmm maybe because three vaccines is 3x the revenue they get vs. from one vaccine. They’re just not incentivized for our long term health and well being. It is a pure capitalism.

>>Why can’t they make it effective with one vaccine? There are actual technical and medical answers to this, but somehow I have a feeling you aren't interested in knowing them.

[deleted]

Re: Moderna booster increased neutralizing antibody levels against Omicron ~37-fold

#60

Post by Toutouxc »

thaufeki wrote: post #55
gambiting wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Why do people keep saying this? Because the population on HN is not homogeneus and different regions in the world approach the flu vaccine differently? In some countries it's completely free and it's normal to get it every year, and even in some countries where it isn't, there's only a nominal cost and usually the employer covers it - so most people get the flu shot too. Not a big deal at all. >> they have always b…

>>Or would you rather that they stopped the development of vaccines completely and focused just on the treatment of symptoms? No, but surely it would be easier to produce an antiviral for home use that would alleviate the symptoms of Covid-19, rather than relying on the development of a vaccine, and then demanding almost universal uptake for it to work? Then we could have had vaccines for the sick, elderly, immunocom…

> surely it would be easier to produce an antiviral for home use that would alleviate the symptoms of Covid-19, rather than relying on the development of a vaccine

What makes you think that? Honest question.

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