Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China • Hacker News Board

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#651

Post by eloisius » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 9:02 AM UTC

noirchen wrote: post #644

eloisius wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how you know the real sentiment in Taiwan, and also how you arrived at the conclusion that everyone in east Asia knows China will attempt unification before the next election? I live in Taiwan, and I've never met anyone that said fuck the U.S. for not offering real support. I've heard people acknowledge that the U.S. doesn't sell Taiwan the latest defense tech, but are also aware that Taiwan is a rich cou…

Do you watch Taiwanese political talk show? Basically guests from both sides in the shows agree that the next election is going to be important. They do openly expressed their anger over the position of the Biden administration. At least for some people across the straits (maybe we can add some people in Japan and Singapore) they are expecting something big to happen between the end of the winter olympics and the 202…

> Basically guests from both sides in the shows agree that the next election is going to be important

Every election in every country at any time is the most important decision we've ever faced, according to political analysts. Talking heads isn't a great way to gauge popular sentiment. I won't be surprised if _something_ happens, and I don't really know what people in Japan or Singapore think, but at least here, I would expect the atmosphere to be much darker if people were expecting an invasion by 2024.

> ordinary Taiwanese people do not really care if they are reunified

Ordinary Taiwanese care immensely, and that is reflected in the strong support for DDP. Not even KMT are indifferent towards unification, they're just pro-status quo, and they still can't catch a break lately.

> would the economics be bad if China finally annex Taiwan?

The per-capita GDP in Taiwan is ~$26k, while in China it's only $10k. If there was a successful unification, it's unlikely that Taiwan would be permitted to remain twice as rich as the rest of China. TSCM and other tech would most likely be relocated to Shenzhen, just like we're seeing finance get stripped out of Hong Kong. I can't see any circumstance under which Taiwanese people would be better off.

> Cash from China has been flowing into Taiwan for 40 years

This is true. Chinese money has flowed into Taiwan in an attempt to take it by economics rather than force. But, there are now laws restricting Chinese ownership of domestic entities. It's no secret that tons of the money in Taiwan was made using labor in China. Taiwan was a bridge between western markets and brands, and Chinese labor for a long time. Everything from Foxconn to Nike shoes. Most of those factories were opened using Taiwanese capital and management with mainland labor. No idea how all of that will unwind. Fortunately, Chinese labor isn't as cheap as it used to be.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#652

Post by rocqua » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 10:19 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #600

rocqua wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You've broken the site guidelines egregiously here. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting to HN, we'd appreciate it. " Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data…

I understand why the rule is in place. I regret to say I had forgotten the rule. My sincere apologies.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#653

Post by astrange » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 10:44 AM UTC

croes wrote: post #179

satronaut wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source please? It sounds like the most mild of all the 99.97% survival rate variants of covid. If you don't want to get sick, then stay home, but don't tell me how to live my life

The recent study about Omicrons severity is from South Africa where 80% were already infected, so mild symptoms could just be because it's the second infection. The severity of Omicron as a first time infection is not researched enough.

20% of SA is immunocompromised from having HIV though, which makes them even more of a special case but also means you'd expect them to be sicker.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#654

Post by astrange » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 10:48 AM UTC

awakeasleep wrote: post #127

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China, unlike any of the Western nations, WILL take a stand on their principles over profit Surely that's a joke, right? China, which still has the audacity to call itself a "Communist" nation, which is basically much closer to a Fascist system, with their authoritarian and state-directed control of capitalism? China has one primary governing principle, which is to keep the CCP in power. Their primary way of doing…

When a “too big to fail” company misbehaves, China doesn’t bail it out, they nationalize the useful parts, send the rest to bankruptcy, and jail the responsible executives. We’re talking past each other a bit, but this is evidence of principle driven behavior rather than government capture by the wealthy like we have in the west.

The US doesn't do free bailouts either, we nationalized GM and gave banks loans that we made a profit on. People misread this and just started claiming it was free money.

Airline bailouts last year were good because they saved subcontractors and union contracts.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#655

Post by astrange » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 10:49 AM UTC

sodality2 wrote: post #97

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China, unlike any of the Western nations, WILL take a stand on their principles over profit Surely that's a joke, right? China, which still has the audacity to call itself a "Communist" nation, which is basically much closer to a Fascist system, with their authoritarian and state-directed control of capitalism? China has one primary governing principle, which is to keep the CCP in power. Their primary way of doing…

A state-directed control of capitalism, of which the façade will be dropped immediately if their ironclad control of the political will is threatened for a second. They have punished huge companies for placing profit over human life, because it threatens "communist values". In my opinion that is placing principles over profit. Despite these principles being what they are. That is not a value judgment of China, simply…

It's strange to claim US companies all put profit over everything when they're not nearly dynamic enough to do that. Why do mattress companies sell mattresses instead of cocaine? That'd be more profitable.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#656

Post by astrange » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 10:52 AM UTC

14 wrote: post #39

baybal2 wrote: post #11

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Yes, and that's the problem. The West will not go, and die without one xmass season, and a new Iphone 99. But Western elites all holding stocks of companies valued in trillions will do. I requires a healthy conversation in society about this. It will come to a time when people will have to decide what to do with these people. Potential adversaries now do things which just 15 years ago would've meant a real hot war wi…

This is the truth the way I see it. I don’t care if I have to go back to coming over a wood stove with a stick if it meant stopping China. The only area of concern I do see is they provide a lot of pharmaceutical with the chemicals they need and they would not be able to produce the drugs they currently make. As for the rest, I’ve lived without a cell phone for decades I would love to go back to suck a time. Is there…

If everyone went back to wooden stoves climate change, deforestation, and air quality would all be much much worse. Remember, degrowth is wrong! Economic growth is the only way to pay for environmentalism.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#657

Post by seniorivn » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #563

hogFeast wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France weighs very heavily. With Germany, they led the move earlier this year for the investment deal with China. The decision was made to become reliant on China, and the pandemic significantly worsened this dependency because China's faster recovery essentially mitigated the economic effect of the pandemic. But it was a choice. Germany's politics appears to have been totally compromised at the highest level by Russ…

> The French position (and German) position on Iran makes no sense, it is the equivalent of: pretend the problem doesn't exist, and it won't exist (again, with policy being led by business interests). We had contracts in Iran and had to break them because US warned of retaliation. We are weaker and had to back off. The US obsession with Iran (driven by religious organizations), instead of staying with the US, was bro…

adding to your metaphor, US is afraid that China that has been both a bully and a weaker bullied child, now has grown up almost to the point where they can be the biggest bully around. The same applies to Iran with their nuclear program.

EU itself is not really a bully, but most EU members are, and always were.

So Isn't it's a smart thing to do for EU to make other bullies to fight each other?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

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Post by mytailorisrich » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 11:14 AM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #499

mytailorisrich wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no domestic censorship in France on China-related topics. As I wrote before France chose a long time ago to switch from ROC/Taiwan to PRC in terms of diplomatic recognition because that was the pragmatic and realistic thing to do for France. France trades with China because it is in its interest to do so, not because of any 'support' for China.

If any of these companies are in France, then there is domestic censorship in France on China-related topics: https://mashable.com/article/china-censorship-companies-hong...

No... Private companies make their own commercial decisions. There is no censorship on these topics on the part of the French authorities.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#659

Post by seniorivn » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 11:15 AM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #564

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that each of th eEU countries is a country. With its own interests, culture, history. We are eons from a country such as the USA, which highlights how federal it is. It is still one country, with one president, one army etc. We (in the EU) are countries that love or hate other for over 1000 years. Some of the dislike is deep, some is surprisingly different now (France and Germany for instance, forever…

that's true, but in my opinion younger generations feel they are European more than anything else. Even I, in my middle 40s, consider myself European before being Italian. And I am proud to be from Europe, more than I am proud of my country (which I am not for so many things).

it's unlikely to be the norm, most people are most likely consider themselves to be a part of the group that they hear most about from their favorite source(like tv host or YouTuber)

do you think for most people its a "group of Europeans"

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#660

Post by davidjytang » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 11:52 AM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #436

hirundo wrote: post #77

I think the right response to these provocations is to assist Taiwan in protecting itself. Essentially we should reverse the betrayal of Taiwan by Nixon in 1972, when he withdrew the US nuclear presence there. This time, to protect from changing political winds, the nukes should be under the control of Taiwan. Nothing much else will deter China.

That's a good way to ensure that China will attack Taiwan immediately before that happens.

That is part of what China claims they do. There has been numerous incidents where their red lines had been crossed and no action was taken except stern words.