Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 727 posts

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#441

Post by lazyeye »

motiejus wrote: post #200

I am Lithuanian; Lithuania Taiwan PRC conflict is frequently a topic of discussion these days among my peers. My position, shared by a few others, is that this is the next best thing that happened in Lithuania after leaving USSR: the first being joining NATO and EU in 2004. Everyone in the world can (and almost everyone do) endorse PRC. "You won't get fired for picking IBM/Oracle/PRC". While very few countries have t…

Its interesting to see which countries are standing up to China. Particularly in the West where we like to grandstand over human rights (only up to the point where there is any kind of financial impact).

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#442

Post by stale2002 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #412
scottLobster wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What-aboutisms and calling people jingoist. Who exactly do you think you're convincing other than yourself? Point me to the last time the US used its navy to directly threaten merchant shipping.

I am not making a whataboutism claim. I am merely trying to figure out what our standard for "bullying" behavior is. If the standard for "bullying" behavior happens to also apply to the US and is the impetus for why Lithuana evacuated its embassy, then I would suggest they should evacuate their US embassy as well. If there is a reason why Lithuania hasn't evacuated their US embassy, then I am just seeking to figure o…

The reason why Lithuania has not evacuated it's US embassy is obviously because china is directly targeting Lithuania right now and the US isn't.

Was that really a hard question to answer?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#443

Post by whimsicalism »

smoldesu wrote: post #437
whimsicalism wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you all really not see how our media has a hand in this at all?

No. Enlighten me.

China was organ harvesting in the early 00s. You didn't see anywhere near as many negative articles constantly about China, Chinese enroachment, etc. etc. then.

It is only now that we are afraid China will eclipse our spot on the global stage that anyone gives a crap about Chinese human rights abuses, because of coverage largely driven by the media.

We've also switched to spinning things that China does that we also do in a much more negative light, for instance, how the media discusses Chinese loan programs to Africa (compared to how IMF/World Bank programs are just not discussed) or Chinese attempts to build a military base on the Atlantic coast (compared to the dozens of military bases we have in the South China Sea area).

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#444

Post by mytailorisrich »

jelly wrote: post #429
mytailorisrich wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. France's traditional stance is more independent non-aligned and it is in France's interest to maintain decent working relations with all sides. France was the first Western country to recognise the PRC, for instance. This was realpolitik and hopefully that will continue. Before every action we need to ask yourself what we want to achieve and whether that is actually achievable. This requires knowledge of other co…

Its incorrect to call opening an office for Taiwan a "rash, emotional move". It's a simple ackowledgement of the way things already are (two nations who talk and negotiate with each other) and helps Taiwan and France build their relationship. The concern is that the CCP will have a rash, emotional response (as they did with Lithuania) because they imagine they can set the terms for any Taiwan-related business. These…

France, like everyone else, has all the communications channels it needs with Taiwan, and does business with Taiwan as it sees fit, but I was not specifically referring to that but rather to closing the embassy in China and other actions against China.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#445

Post by abduhl »

whimsicalism wrote: post #408
lumost wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Uyghur population is growing faster than the Han population is. This seems to be the crux of your argument justifying the PRCs sterilization policy. As others have noted forced sterilization is a crime against humanity regardless of reason. Justification of forced sterilization based on a believed “correct” ethnic ratio is abhorrent.

[flagged]

You’re advocating for a position on China’s 2 child policy that, in America, would most certainly would be deemed unconstitutional under a disparate impact framework. I know we’re talking about China here, but most Western countries have recognized that you can target a subgroup without saying you’re targeting a subgroup. You’re basically arguing that the Holocaust would not be a genocide as long as Germany was universally applying its no [insert Jewish characteristic] policy.

Just to underscore my point here, almost every aspect of your viewpoint on the genocide China is committing is abhorrent and untenable if you believe in human rights.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#446

Post by qwytw »

whimsicalism wrote: post #401
neom wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's wrong in your book, but it's not in mine, so where does that leave us? Reasonable people cannot disagree? I'm a dimwitted plebeian? Shall we reach for the white gloves? Last I checked, folks were welcomed to their perspectives around here, we don't typically just go around telling people their opinions are "wrong".

Your point is self-contradictory. It is my opinion that your opinion is wrong. You are telling me to not express that opinion. But sure, we can agree to disagree about whether the killing of 6 million people of a specific ethnic group should be "discussed equally" with cultural genocide practices like Burqa bans in France, child marriage bans, or limits on having more than 3 children.

Equating Burqa bans in France and what China is doing to Uighurs is maybe not as extreme as what you're disagreeing with but is also very distasteful.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#447

Post by whimsicalism »

throwawayay02 wrote: post #438
whimsicalism wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree if the sterilization is applied even-handedly as an application of their two-child law. I am skeptical that a lineage is being exterminated if, at minimum, they can have replacement level number of births. The Uyghur population is growing faster than the Han population is. But backing up a bit - really what I'm taking issue with is the word "genocide." We can call horrendous, human rights violating policie…

Do you have anything against the Uyghur population growing faster and replacing the Han?

No, I think such concerns are stupid. I also don't think the Uyghurs are "replacing the Han."

But I do find it interesting that China is apparently conducting the first genocide in history where the population being genocided is increasing rather than decreasing.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#448

Post by trasz »

spaced-out wrote: post #391
ww_wpg wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what should we have done then, when the Chinese invaded Taiwan?" "anything at all besides what you did" - On the Beach (2000)

We've seen what happens when authoritarian governments which start locking minorities up in concentration camps progress to inventing historical grievances to start seizing territory. Appeasement doesn't work.

Your description matches American labour camps / private prisons. So, what happens?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#449

Post by mschuster91 »

Pmop wrote: post #218

> packages(/containers) from PRC are delayed or cancelled, invoices are not being paid, we are losing business there I think the whole western world should stop playing games with the bully state that is PRC.

We can't, we have exposed ourselves way too big with China over the last decades. Especially us Germans are a major part of the problem, given that our car industry has their only growth market in China - Europe and the US are saturated, South America, large parts of Asia and Africa are too poor (corrupt elites aside), and Arabia wants luxury cars that our car makers don't have - so the amount of influence from the car lobby on our politics is what has kept the CDU (the Conservative party that lost out end of September in the elections) to go against China.
Post reply on HN