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Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

economist.com

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Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#191

Post by FooBarWidget »

ChemSpider wrote: post #137
FooBarWidget wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't that easy. It's not just China's government that believes Taiwan is part of China — China's people also believe that. There is a saying that if China is democratic, they would have invaded Taiwan yesterday. Or another saying: if the president lets go of Taiwan, the CCP would be overthrown tomorrow. Another factor that complicates things is the fact that Taiwan is a strategic location for the US's military co…

There is no need for Mr. Xi to formally give up on Taiwan. He could just kick the can down the road for another few decades, like all his much smarter predecessors did. > China's people also believe that. Only because that is what they learn and hear (literally) daily, starting with kindergarten. Just reduce this crab step by step, and it will fade away. The same is true for this even more stupid 7-dash line. They dr…

Saying that viewing Taiwan that way as purely a consequence of propaganda is like saying that American patriotism, and the fact that Americans believe that the South's cecession is illegitimate or unrighteous, is purely a consequence of having taught people so since childhood.

Yes education is a contributing factor. But it is my no means the only factor. Your take also ignores the fact that unification is Chinese core value, which is valued more than western freedom of speech, and that this core value has been around for thousands of years.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#193

Post by dvlsadvoxate6 »

BrazzVuvuzela wrote: post #135
bettysdiagnose wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like they want the rest of the world to hate them.

Authoritarian regimes love fostering us vs the world narratives; it helps them maintain control.

US v China

US v Russia

US v Vietnam

US v Middle East

US v Cuba

US capitalism v everyone

I see what you mean about authoritarian US v the world

Edit: polite society = don’t mention how we’re like everyone else

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#194

Post by uquercia »

ricardobeat wrote: post #166
satronaut wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source please? It sounds like the most mild of all the 99.97% survival rate variants of covid. If you don't want to get sick, then stay home, but don't tell me how to live my life

Reduced death rate doesn’t change the fact hospitals are overloaded and you might not be able to get treatment for other emergencies. > stay home > don’t tell me how to live my life I hope you see the irony there. If only it was that simple. You want to be out and about, unvaccinated, putting other people at risk, while the ones who took the vaccine and are trying to stay safe stay home? Yeah right. If you want to li…

I got three vaccine jabs and I am totally pro vax. But the unfortunately the majority of scientific data shows that fully vaccinated people still can spread Delta variant, because neither of the current vaccines has been tailored for Delta. For omicron this is probably even worse, since it is even more contagious. So I do not see how the narrative of COVID being spread by unvaccinated is true in the end of 2021.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#195

Post by croes »

yololol wrote: post #174
FooBarWidget wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you greatly underestimates what Taiwan means to China. People in the west are quick to dismiss any claims by China on Taiwan as having any legitimacy, viewing it purely as expansionism. But regardless of whether the western view of that is right (or ought to be right), the Chinese don't view it that way: they view it as a sovereignty issue, as an unfinished part of the Chinese civil war, and as part of the US…

Exactly. Moreover, countries that support Taiwan don't do it to liberate "poor Taiwanese people from bad China's tyranny". Instead, they will use that as an excuse to back actions that support their own national interests. Exactly like what China does. Personally I understand everyone's point of view in this game, yet I wish Taiwanese people could be left alone to live as they wish. What's certain is that it's a more…

By Taiwanese, do you mean the taiwanese natives or the chinese people of the RoC that fled from the PRC?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#196

Post by LatteLazy »

nindalf wrote: post #146
subroutine wrote: post #44

China would be much better off if they just gave up on the whole Taiwan charade. I understand how badly they want to put Taiwan under thumb like they did HK, but Taiwan is really the only issue I foresee with potential to derail China's progress.

Edit: apologies to anyone who read my comment analysing the situation and assumed that I’m some kind of warmonger. At no point did I advocate for Taiwan to be annexed. I merely pointed out that China really wants to and they’re stronger than ever in 2021. Shoutout to the dude who implied I’m a Nazi for saying this. Why would they give up on this “charade” as you put it? They’re closer than ever to annexing Taiwan in…

China could take Taiwan and I don't think anyone would stop them.

But the aftermath would be pretty terrible. The US and EU would lock them out of the their economies, as would basically every country in the region except NK. Economic collapse would ensue and that would likely lead to a revolution: the CCP have basically ruled on a "give up freedom and get economic opportunity" ticket. If they can't deliver...

There is also a pretty big US air force base there which would be hard to... Invade around?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#197

Post by notpachet »

satronaut wrote: post #138
notpachet wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omicron is real. It's having very tangible impacts on the ability of countries to provide necessary healthcare services to their citizens. People who normally should be first in line to receive care (cancer patients and the like) are having their critical services interrupted or deferred. Just because you personally don't see the impact doesn't mean it isn't there.

Source please? It sounds like the most mild of all the 99.97% survival rate variants of covid. If you don't want to get sick, then stay home, but don't tell me how to live my life

Did you even read my post? I said nothing about not wanting to personally get sick (although of course I'd prefer not to). I was talking about cancer patients and people in other similar situations. What are they supposed to do, not go to the chemo clinic?

Since you asked for a source, here you go: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33253013/

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#198

Post by [deleted] »

strogonoff wrote: post #169
subroutine wrote: post #44

China would be much better off if they just gave up on the whole Taiwan charade. I understand how badly they want to put Taiwan under thumb like they did HK, but Taiwan is really the only issue I foresee with potential to derail China's progress.

Looks like CCP painted itself into a corner. Internally it has fostered the narrative that Taiwan is a renegade that should be brought to order for so long that citizens themselves now call for that. Walking that all back is tricky and would take a while since the government is worried about own popularity.

[deleted]

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#199

Post by notpachet »

sfe22 wrote: post #187
satronaut wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source please? It sounds like the most mild of all the 99.97% survival rate variants of covid. If you don't want to get sick, then stay home, but don't tell me how to live my life

Totally agree. I think we have been warned more than enough. You afraid? Stay at home and lock down. (Didn’t stay home and) got sick? Your problem if no space is available. Split hospitals 50% covid and continue the rest as usual with limited capacity. We cannot control covid anymore and this was apparent just a few months in. Stop supporting authoritarianism and get real.

> Split hospitals 50% covid and continue the rest as usual with limited capacity

Let me know when you've accomplished this. We'll wait.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#200

Post by motiejus »

I am Lithuanian; LithuaniaTaiwanPRC conflict is frequently a topic of discussion these days among my peers.

My position, shared by a few others, is that this is the next best thing that happened in Lithuania after leaving USSR: the first being joining NATO and EU in 2004.

Everyone in the world can (and almost everyone do) endorse PRC. "You won't get fired for picking IBM/Oracle/PRC". While very few countries have the guts and the internal political structure that allows opening a Taiwanese representative office. Lithuania shows that it prefers dealing with a country that takes the human rights into account; being the first one "in the party" to do so bring us significant advantages. Both Taiwanese investments and Lithuanian exports to Taiwan are picking up pace.

This will hurt us in the short-term, sure. It already does: packages(/containers) from PRC are delayed or cancelled, invoices are not being paid, we are losing business there. In the long term, if we don't change our mind (not impossible), I think this is for the better.

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