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France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

france24.com

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Re: France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

#21

Post by mytailorisrich »

ekianjo wrote: post #9
sathio wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unless people still don’t understand they’re not fighting against authoritarianism but a virus which simply does not care about people being “oppressed”

> they’re not fighting against authoritarianism mandatory injection of substances in your body without one's consent is the textbook definition of authoritarianism. Not the first time it happened in History.

In France 11 vaccines are mandatory by law for children, starting soon after birth.

The number of people who have a problem with that is minuscule and infinitely smaller than the number of people who have a problem with Covid vaccines, which are not mandatory. To me this highlights the high degree of irrationality and of misplaced "fight for freedom" we're seeing.

Re: France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

#22

Post by Closi »

adriancr wrote: post #20
Closi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it is voluntary. People just dont like the consequences of their actions. Voluntary is doing something by your own free will, which to me doesn't mean "there are legal consequences / you will be banned from your current way of living if you don't do it". For instance, if you had to register as an organ donor otherwise you could never eat at a restaurant at any time in your life, I doubt we would call that regist…

One person's freedoms end where another's begin. You are saying that restricting someone's 'freedoms' make vaccine not voluntary. Perhaps there is a bit of coercion, that being said, people are free to take it or not. If they do not they can't expect to be allowed to spread the disease and potentially kill other people. When disease is eradicated they can be free to do whatever they like, until then they should be ac…

Reasonable people can have different opinions on this.

Covid will never be eradicated, and I don’t personally think the price on passes (needing to carry and show your papers everywhere) is worth the prize.

“Carry your papers” and “papers please” was an authoritarian / police state trope a few years ago, so I think it’s something we have to be very careful introducing as these things can be hard to unwind after.

But again, a reasonable person could disagree, we all have to accept there is no absolute right or wrong here.

Re: France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

#23

Post by theGeatZhopa »

adriancr wrote: post #12
theGeatZhopa wrote: post #2

Sounds stupid. In Germany we have a case now. One nurse faked her vaccination pass, not just to be able to say she's vaccinated but also in terms not to do the testings anymore. Her husband got infected and she still went to her workplace - always saying there is no need to be quarantined for vaccinated. She then developed Symptoms by herself - in the meantime her colleagues got infected and some patients, of who 3 d…

She should face manslaugter charges for the 3 that died...

It will be like that. She already did an disclosure because of the faked papers, but still trying to argument like it's not my fault they got infected.

Let's see if there are some contacts of the other co-workers/coworkers by them selves, who have been infected before the infections of the elderly started xD

Her problem is, every company should take notes of the results of testing of employees for the infection. Especially in that very sensitive area working with "elderly patients", if the companies don't take notes, they can be held responsible.

The police already said, the employer didn't show any misbehaving on that matter xD

Such a egoistic person. Should be sentenced for that.

Re: France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

#24

Post by ekianjo »

adriancr wrote: post #15
ekianjo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voluntary vaccination is fine. Try avoid reading between the lines.

It is voluntary.

Not really. When you fire people because they don't want vaccination it's pure coercion. Let's stop pretending otherwise.

Re: France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

#25

Post by ekianjo »

adriancr wrote: post #17
Closi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really voluntary - you are excluded from lots of society by law that you previously didn't had access to if you don't do it (for instance you are no longer legally allowed to visit restaurants, museums etc). At the very least it's highly coercive. (I personally am vaccinated, think everyone should get themselves vaccinated, and am against 'vaccination passports').

So it is voluntary. People just dont like the consequences of their actions. > am against 'vaccination passports' These are required when visiting certain countries where you are expected to be vaccinated against certain diseases. Also for citizenship in most places (TB vaccine + scan of lungs, all other expected vaccines...) So its merely adding a new vaccine to the already existing lists.

> So its merely adding a new vaccine to the already existing lists.

First, it's not a vaccine like the other ones, since the infection still spreads among vaccinated people. It does not sterilize the virus at all. It simply protects YOU, and only you, from the worst effects.

Second, why stop at vaccines then? Let's have passports for everything under the sun like China with their social score, and let's remove any kind of individual rights and submit to our dear leader(s) since they know what is best for everyone, even though this virus only kills people with at least 3-4 comorbidities. Let the ones most at risk get the shot, and the rest can decide for themselves. It's only a crisis because we are calling it one.

Re: France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

#26

Post by ekianjo »

adriancr wrote: post #20
Closi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it is voluntary. People just dont like the consequences of their actions. Voluntary is doing something by your own free will, which to me doesn't mean "there are legal consequences / you will be banned from your current way of living if you don't do it". For instance, if you had to register as an organ donor otherwise you could never eat at a restaurant at any time in your life, I doubt we would call that regist…

One person's freedoms end where another's begin. You are saying that restricting someone's 'freedoms' make vaccine not voluntary. Perhaps there is a bit of coercion, that being said, people are free to take it or not. If they do not they can't expect to be allowed to spread the disease and potentially kill other people. When disease is eradicated they can be free to do whatever they like, until then they should be ac…

> . If they do not they can't expect to be allowed to spread the disease and potentially kill other people.

Wrong argument to use since vaccinated people spread the virus just as well. Get your facts right when you want to debate. Also, if you are vaccinated your risk of dying is virtually zero, so why would YOU care?

Re: France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

#27

Post by theGeatZhopa »

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #19
ekianjo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the meantime her colleagues got infected and some patients, of who 3 died Where the patients vaccinated? Because if they were, are they supposed NOT to die? > That's hate, egoism and inhumane So can we force you to get all kind of shots because you risk killing people by spreading stuff like the flu in winter? (that does kill people too, whether you are aware of it or not). Are we also going to charge people who…

In fact, it is already like that. If you have some STD and don't take precautions like preservatives and after the sexual intercourse the other person is infected, too, you can be held accountable and face some serious charges for that. It depends on your "partner" whether this gets beknown and whether he/she do an official statement (I don't know how it's called in English. You go to police station and tell them you…

Lol, i forgot to mention;

There are some down votes on my very personal view & thinking. Sure, it's the right of everyone to up or down vote.

But the ones down voting without any discussions or comment are just as reckless and egoistic and one may say "radical" - not accepting any other opinions and not willing to behave like a social beings.

Please leave your Nick here, so I can down vote your comments in return. Thank you!

Re: France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

#28

Post by bsaul »

adriancr wrote: post #14
bsaul wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Congrats on breaking the law... you are in nice company.

I’ve always been told at school that whenever states start to discriminate by laws against a part of its population, breaking the law was actually the morally right thing to do. Blame it on french education.

Re: France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

#29

Post by Schiendelman »

ekianjo wrote: post #26
adriancr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person's freedoms end where another's begin. You are saying that restricting someone's 'freedoms' make vaccine not voluntary. Perhaps there is a bit of coercion, that being said, people are free to take it or not. If they do not they can't expect to be allowed to spread the disease and potentially kill other people. When disease is eradicated they can be free to do whatever they like, until then they should be ac…

> . If they do not they can't expect to be allowed to spread the disease and potentially kill other people. Wrong argument to use since vaccinated people spread the virus just as well. Get your facts right when you want to debate. Also, if you are vaccinated your risk of dying is virtually zero, so why would YOU care?

Vaccinated people are much less likely to spread the virus. This is well documented: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people...

We vaccinated care about those who can’t get vaccinated as well. It’s telling that many of the unvaccinated ask this question; it’s basic empathy.

Re: France says 110k fake health passes in circulation

#30

Post by Schiendelman »

ekianjo wrote: post #25
adriancr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it is voluntary. People just dont like the consequences of their actions. > am against 'vaccination passports' These are required when visiting certain countries where you are expected to be vaccinated against certain diseases. Also for citizenship in most places (TB vaccine + scan of lungs, all other expected vaccines...) So its merely adding a new vaccine to the already existing lists.

> So its merely adding a new vaccine to the already existing lists. First, it's not a vaccine like the other ones, since the infection still spreads among vaccinated people. It does not sterilize the virus at all. It simply protects YOU, and only you, from the worst effects. Second, why stop at vaccines then? Let's have passports for everything under the sun like China with their social score, and let's remove any ki…

You have some misinformation. The vaccinated are much less likely to spread the virus. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people...
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