11–20 of 37 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they’re not fighting against authoritarianism mandatory injection of substances in your body without one's consent is the textbook definition of authoritarianism. Not the first time it happened in History.
oh no... by this logic we should have never used any vaccine all throughout history / the whole globe is authoritarian... grow up.
Sounds stupid. In Germany we have a case now. One nurse faked her vaccination pass, not just to be able to say she's vaccinated but also in terms not to do the testings anymore. Her husband got infected and she still went to her workplace - always saying there is no need to be quarantined for vaccinated. She then developed Symptoms by herself - in the meantime her colleagues got infected and some patients, of who 3 d…
Sounds stupid. In Germany we have a case now. One nurse faked her vaccination pass, not just to be able to say she's vaccinated but also in terms not to do the testings anymore. Her husband got infected and she still went to her workplace - always saying there is no need to be quarantined for vaccinated. She then developed Symptoms by herself - in the meantime her colleagues got infected and some patients, of who 3 d…
> in the meantime her colleagues got infected and some patients, of who 3 died Where the patients vaccinated? Because if they were, are they supposed NOT to die? > That's hate, egoism and inhumane So can we force you to get all kind of shots because you risk killing people by spreading stuff like the flu in winter? (that does kill people too, whether you are aware of it or not). Are we also going to charge people who…
isnt it already the case for knowingly spreading HIV?
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Earlier quoted context omitted.
Voluntary vaccination is fine. Try avoid reading between the lines.
It is voluntary.
At the very least it's highly coercive. (I personally am vaccinated, think everyone should get themselves vaccinated, and am against 'vaccination passports').
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is voluntary.
It's not really voluntary - you are excluded from lots of society by law that you previously didn't had access to if you don't do it (for instance you are no longer legally allowed to visit restaurants, museums etc). At the very least it's highly coercive. (I personally am vaccinated, think everyone should get themselves vaccinated, and am against 'vaccination passports').
People just dont like the consequences of their actions.
> am against 'vaccination passports'
These are required when visiting certain countries where you are expected to be vaccinated against certain diseases.
Also for citizenship in most places (TB vaccine + scan of lungs, all other expected vaccines...)
So its merely adding a new vaccine to the already existing lists.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not really voluntary - you are excluded from lots of society by law that you previously didn't had access to if you don't do it (for instance you are no longer legally allowed to visit restaurants, museums etc). At the very least it's highly coercive. (I personally am vaccinated, think everyone should get themselves vaccinated, and am against 'vaccination passports').
So it is voluntary. People just dont like the consequences of their actions. > am against 'vaccination passports' These are required when visiting certain countries where you are expected to be vaccinated against certain diseases. Also for citizenship in most places (TB vaccine + scan of lungs, all other expected vaccines...) So its merely adding a new vaccine to the already existing lists.
Voluntary is doing something by your own free will, which to me doesn't mean "there are legal consequences / you will be banned from your current way of living if you don't do it".
For instance, if you had to register as an organ donor otherwise you could never eat at a restaurant at any time in your life, I doubt we would call that registration 'completely voluntary'.
But I think this just comes down to a definition of what you count as voluntary, and if something can be truly voluntary if people are actually doing it because of coercion. It depends where you stop, if we fine people if they don't take a vaccine does that still count as voluntary, just because there are consequences to their actions? What if we put people in jail? Where is the line between something being voluntary and being coerced?
> These are required when visiting certain countries where you are expected to be vaccinated against certain diseases. Also for citizenship in most places (TB vaccine + scan of lungs, all other expected vaccines...)
To clarify I'm talking about domestic 'vaccine passports'. The word in the UK at least is used to describe the introduction of proving your identification and vaccination status every time you go into a restaurant or bar within the country etc as they have introduced in France, which also keeps a log of everywhere every citizen has visited.
If any country wants to block anyone from entering their country without a particular vaccination then that's fine and their decision.
Sounds stupid. In Germany we have a case now. One nurse faked her vaccination pass, not just to be able to say she's vaccinated but also in terms not to do the testings anymore. Her husband got infected and she still went to her workplace - always saying there is no need to be quarantined for vaccinated. She then developed Symptoms by herself - in the meantime her colleagues got infected and some patients, of who 3 d…
> in the meantime her colleagues got infected and some patients, of who 3 died Where the patients vaccinated? Because if they were, are they supposed NOT to die? > That's hate, egoism and inhumane So can we force you to get all kind of shots because you risk killing people by spreading stuff like the flu in winter? (that does kill people too, whether you are aware of it or not). Are we also going to charge people who…
If you have some STD and don't take precautions like preservatives and after the sexual intercourse the other person is infected, too, you can be held accountable and face some serious charges for that. It depends on your "partner" whether this gets beknown and whether he/she do an official statement (I don't know how it's called in English. You go to police station and tell them you're harmed by another one. They start an investigation which ends with holding the causer liable most of the time.) This apply most of the time to diseases like HIV/AIDS and the kinds of.. getting a bacterial infections with clostridium is considered not to be very harmful. Nevertheless, it's your freedom to sue or not to sue the other one. Most victims are women and feel ashamed by that. So no official prosecution is started because of that.
The same is held for infectious deseases like flu and hepatitis. We also have some mandatory vaccines like against measles (which can be used as a biological weapon).
In Germany there is a law which is like "every individual has the right not to be harmed in no matter what way." And further in the same sentence "the freedom of an individual ends there, where the the freedom of an other is touched"
This are the basic laws and stand on the second place after the very first law "every individual has the right to live and to unfold his personality as he/she thinks so"
So. Basically, I don't wish for - it's already law since the ending of the second world war.
And yes, you/me can be forced to do a vaccination in certain cases, where the health of all is touched. And we have that situation right now. So it will come. I'm happy about that - but, this is the pint: I'm against mandatory vaccines by myself. Every one should take his own responsibility for the society he lives in, like the laws and institutions of the very self society are made to make the live secure & good for everyone in that society. Law & Order, I guess xD.
The incident happened was in a house for elder people. 29 got infected. Three of them died. So, basically, that corresponds to "the vaccine helps not to die". Without vaccine, in worst case all of the elderly would have died. It's not just reckless of the woman, it's criminal.
Me, got 3x vaccined against covid and I also got the flu vaccine like 8 weeks ago. Not because I fear something. I'm in the comfortable position to be able to say "if I die, everything finally comes to an end and I don't need to face the struggle any more" But, I did that for my mom & dad (I'm 40, only kid. One of them wouldn't survive my leaving..).
I did that to be able to work (having a lot of daily contacts).
I did that for my company, so it won't be shutdown in case of - making possible to pay the fees and the monthly rent.
I did that for the whole economy. All bars, restaurants, theaters, shops .. I'm able to help by spending my money on them. It wouldn't be possible if the counts are way too high and everything is lockdowned, or if I get infected xD
And of course, for my self - I still have a very healthy body without being ill the last 10 years or so.. I can't calculate the risk for the possible severeness of an infection with COVID. I don't want to risk being aired by the machine (which breaks more tissue as the virus itself) or having half of the lungs not working for the rest of my life. No one can tell how high the risk is - just precautions.
I don't need to do the tests with 3x vaccines, but still do them almost daily. Just because of my colleagues and the company and more important:
Not to spread the virus unknowingly and harm other people around me. They also got illnesses I can't see, jobs that may be crucial for their life beings and other points unseen by me.
I see the vaccine as my duty to give back what society gave me.
But of course. I'm not a person who wants everything to be mandatory - I say "everyone have the right to decide, but must be held liable for the results of the decision" For that we have the laws.
Yesterday I've had an encounter with a man in his mid 50s, who is totally against the measures and vaccination. I've should pulled down my mask an just tell him "the tests are not reliable. Since three days all my tests show positive, but I don't feel ill. Everything is fake" xD that face
Long text, short said: If you live in a society that cares for you, you should care for that society too.
Peace!
Earlier quoted context omitted.
So it is voluntary. People just dont like the consequences of their actions. > am against 'vaccination passports' These are required when visiting certain countries where you are expected to be vaccinated against certain diseases. Also for citizenship in most places (TB vaccine + scan of lungs, all other expected vaccines...) So its merely adding a new vaccine to the already existing lists.
> So it is voluntary. People just dont like the consequences of their actions. Voluntary is doing something by your own free will, which to me doesn't mean "there are legal consequences / you will be banned from your current way of living if you don't do it". For instance, if you had to register as an organ donor otherwise you could never eat at a restaurant at any time in your life, I doubt we would call that regist…
You are saying that restricting someone's 'freedoms' make vaccine not voluntary.
Perhaps there is a bit of coercion, that being said, people are free to take it or not. If they do not they can't expect to be allowed to spread the disease and potentially kill other people.
When disease is eradicated they can be free to do whatever they like, until then they should be acting like responsible adults.
Your example of organ donor is unreasonable... a better example would be someone with active TB being allowed to go out and cough everywhere... That is also illegal... regardless if everyone else is vaccinated or not.
> To clarify I'm talking about domestic 'vaccine passports'. The word in the UK at least is used to describe the introduction of proving your identification and vaccination status every time you go into a restaurant or bar within the country etc as they have introduced in France, which also keeps a log of everywhere every citizen has visited.
That's just enforcing the law... Can't have a law that nobody checks.