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Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

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Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#131

Post by xvilka »

jat850 wrote: post #112
rlt wrote: post #107

Millennials and especially Gen Z are thought to have higher rates of depression and anxiety than previous generations. I would be very surprised if social media weren’t a factor. Despite making a career in tech I believe some of what we’re doing is very harmful to culture, mental and physical health, the environment, and democracy. At some point I would like to focus on mitigating these problems.

Do they have higher rates, or better access to information, introspection, tools, awareness, and common understanding of these things? I am curious about that.

A bit of both, I guess.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#132

Post by nvarsj »

wincy wrote: post #36
senortumnus wrote: post #22

HN represents a wellspring of deeper reading than is generally afforded by the current entertainment cruft portals of the web - reddit, FB, insta, USA today, financial times, etc etc down to the SEO hellholes of recipe sites, youtube product placement; you get the idea. Let's appreciate HN for the quality of reading material and its curb on our drift to the rest of the 'popular' web. And I don't think I'm alone in al…

I used to read books all the time. I spent most of my waking hours as a teenager reading books. I’m 35 now and can barely hold attention on anything, I read maybe 3 books a year if I’m lucky. Even on Hacker News I almost exclusively read and comment on the comments, not the actual article unless I see someone says “have you read the article?” I don’t really know why. I have 8+ hours a day screentime on my iPhone, whi…

I used to read voraciously as well. It's very time consuming. Looking back, I spent at least one university summer simply reading every day, rather than doing a boring internship to get me a high paid job out of university. Reading is ultimately a leisure activity, like watching movie or listening to music. It may occasionally cause you to think, but it is another form of consumption. Reading HN has done more for my career than any books I read.

Not saying that is bad though - honestly I miss those carefree days of my youth terribly. I hate the rat race I live in now and the modern TC driven tech culture.

Lots of what you describe sounds to me like symptoms of depression and burn out, which is something I'm familiar with. Could be you need to change jobs or change something else to get yourself out of the rut.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#133

Post by knaik94 »

math_denial wrote: post #96
knaik94 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Staring at a phone doing what? Swiping to refresh on social media for hours and hours at a time? Using a phone is like going to the library, what you do there is what actually matters. Checking social media can be thought of as asking a librarian what new books are in. If you're asking every minute of every hour for 8 hours, then I can see that being a problem. But that's not really how people use the phone. You chec…

>Staring at a phone doing what? Swiping to refresh on social media for hours and hours at a time? Yes, for the technologically-not-literate people that I know, Internet = social media, and they totally spend every waking hour refresh the page to see "what's new". I used to do that on reddit. >check email, you read news articles, you look at posts from friends on fb or instagram, you interact with people in a comments…

I agree with you that escapism with tech can be more than a bad habit and it can take your attention away from things that would be more productive in the long term. However I don't know if I agree that it's a compulsion the way you'd think it with traditional addiction. If a friend you haven't talked to in a while suddenly came over to hang out, would you sit there and continue doom scrolling?

I also should clarify that I don't categorize reddit as social media because it's generally not people I know. I would consider fb, insta, snapchat as social media but not YouTube, reddit, or even here.

This reminds more of somewhere in between. Like stumbleupon but with a comment section where you can discuss things.

I am only differentiating because I believe the motivation for refreshing news aggregation sites vs social media is different. There's a much higher sense of urgency and importance when it's news. What you find interesting is also different between social media and news.

I think having a catch all term of being on the phone is not productive in helping people understand when the use of technology becomes unhealthy. Calling technology use unhealthy or even an addiction based on the perception of how long you spend is meaningless.

I agree that for some people using technology less would be positive, most often because they stop using technology to escape and ignore their responsibilities.

I don't know how fair it is to say it's garbage, some people like watching terrible films, some watch reality tv, some like video games, some like learning baseball stats, some like collecting NFTs, some like following twitter drama, I personally enjoy this kind of discourse on HN. How people choose to spend their time and what they enjoy is up to them.

I don't personally believe in the idea that constant stimulation is a bad thing as long as my responsibilities are taken care of. But I also have adhd so I don't know if everyone would share that sentiment.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#134

Post by klohto »

najqh wrote: post #122
bentcorner wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the same way. As a teen I'd sit down with a several hundred page book and spend an entire day reading the whole thing. These days I spend my spare time on reddit/HN or gaming (which I did in my teen years as well). Much less reading, although I aspire to read more and have a long backlog on my Kindle. Maybe I'll commit to reading an hour a day or something. I certainly have the free time. In fact, I'll start now.…

These days, I can't even concentrate in games or media such as movies. I wish I could, because I remember having lots of fun playing games. Oh well.

I had the same experience but my problem was from the sheer amount of games being released. I couldn’t pick one, became overwhelmed and then lost the drive to try something.

So I stopped worrying about the reviews, about length about all the details behind a game. I check out Steam 250 or SteamDB charts, pick one out and just try it. I have no expectations going in, and I’m happy to drop it if I don’t find it enjoyable, there is plenty more to try :) You also have to listen to your mind and don’t force it if you don’t feel like playing.

This has been a success with me trying out Timberborn, Dyson Sphere, Gunfire Reborn, Valheim as well trying out Minecraft again.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#135

Post by heisenbit »

I find the long form linear book format puts me into a calming perceiving mood. It became a much needed method of taking a break at a time when multiple high pressure projects and private stress at the same time were pushing me towards collapse. Internet is fractured and many encounter either directly elicit an emotional response of ask of me some form of judgement. Not helpful when needing to calm down.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#136

Post by Brybry »

wincy wrote: post #36
senortumnus wrote: post #22

HN represents a wellspring of deeper reading than is generally afforded by the current entertainment cruft portals of the web - reddit, FB, insta, USA today, financial times, etc etc down to the SEO hellholes of recipe sites, youtube product placement; you get the idea. Let's appreciate HN for the quality of reading material and its curb on our drift to the rest of the 'popular' web. And I don't think I'm alone in al…

I used to read books all the time. I spent most of my waking hours as a teenager reading books. I’m 35 now and can barely hold attention on anything, I read maybe 3 books a year if I’m lucky. Even on Hacker News I almost exclusively read and comment on the comments, not the actual article unless I see someone says “have you read the article?” I don’t really know why. I have 8+ hours a day screentime on my iPhone, whi…

As a similar-yet-different anecdote: I used to read all the time as a kid and I still read a lot as a 34 year old. I never stopped the habit.

I usually spend 8+ hours a day in front of my PC and I still read 50+ books a year (mostly fiction). The internet didn't replace my reading habit though it did replace my TV time. I haven't spent more than a couple minutes in front of a TV in years.

Also don't sell yourself short. Whether you read books or not does not make you dumber. It's just another way to spend what time you have.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#137

Post by najqh »

klohto wrote: post #134
najqh wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days, I can't even concentrate in games or media such as movies. I wish I could, because I remember having lots of fun playing games. Oh well.

I had the same experience but my problem was from the sheer amount of games being released. I couldn’t pick one, became overwhelmed and then lost the drive to try something. So I stopped worrying about the reviews, about length about all the details behind a game. I check out Steam 250 or SteamDB charts, pick one out and just try it. I have no expectations going in, and I’m happy to drop it if I don’t find it enjoyab…

Nah, doesn't work for me. I know the games I like; they are all old and I know I love them. I don't follow the news on new games at all. I simply can't concentrate on the games I like for more than 15 minutes. I get distracted, I alt-tab out all the time, and eventually I close them. It's the same with movies or books. It takes a superhuman effort for me to sit still and watch a movie.

If anybody has any recommendations on how to proceed from here my fried brain and I would be eternally grateful :P

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#138

Post by distances »

senortumnus wrote: post #62
anoncow wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somethings that helped me - 1. Delete frequently visited websites in chrome on Desktop and mobile and populate it with websites that you want to visit more frequently. 2. Create a new profile on YT and subscribe to channels you like that add value. 3. Keep a separate work phone. 4. Keep your personal phone away for certain times of the day 5. Read a book that you have been waiting to read on a dedicated Kindle or in…

#1 is a big thing - delete your links to FB, reddit, whatever it may be. Diminish your portals to the engineered attention sucks out there. I aspire to a separate personal phone vs work phone. Have a lightphone but have not set up separate numbers for work & personal so I can't yet fully unplug from work when desired.

In the same spirit:

* Block time sucking websites in .hosts file, or in uBlock Origin custom filter. Latter works well for Android

* Delete mobile apps, or add strict usage timers (at least Android supports this)

* Never take phone to bed. Leave outside of bedroom or by the door where you have to get up to reach it

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#139

Post by Aeolun »

wincy wrote: post #36
senortumnus wrote: post #22

HN represents a wellspring of deeper reading than is generally afforded by the current entertainment cruft portals of the web - reddit, FB, insta, USA today, financial times, etc etc down to the SEO hellholes of recipe sites, youtube product placement; you get the idea. Let's appreciate HN for the quality of reading material and its curb on our drift to the rest of the 'popular' web. And I don't think I'm alone in al…

I used to read books all the time. I spent most of my waking hours as a teenager reading books. I’m 35 now and can barely hold attention on anything, I read maybe 3 books a year if I’m lucky. Even on Hacker News I almost exclusively read and comment on the comments, not the actual article unless I see someone says “have you read the article?” I don’t really know why. I have 8+ hours a day screentime on my iPhone, whi…

Hmm, I have both now. During the day, I build up around 4-5 hours of screentime on my phone, but at night, I have basically 3 options.

Read, Play games/program (e.g. boot up my PC) or Sleep.

If I start with any of them I won’t get to do the others any more (not because of any concious decision on my part, but because they all suck me in to such an extend it’s 2am by the time I’m done).

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#140

Post by kashyapc »

bambax wrote: post #46

Socrates famously hated the written form, not because it was technologically advanced for its time, but because it was "dead": you can't have a conversation with a piece of writing, or ask the author to explain something that's on the page. I disagree (and agree, indirectly, with the OP): deadness is a feature, not a bug. The problem with Internet writing is not just its addictive nature, it's groupthink. It is too m…

Incidentally, this morning I finished reading the Socratic dialogue, 'Phaedrus'[1]. At the end of the dialogue (and also in a couple of other dialogues), Socrates makes his famous rebuttal against writing:

You know, Phaedrus, writing shares a strange feature with painting. The offsprings of painting stand there as if they are alive, but if anyone asks them anything, they remain most solemnly silent. The same is true of written words. You'd think they were speaking as if they had some understanding, but if you question anything that has been said because you want to learn more, it continues to signify just that very same thing forever.

When it has once been written down, every discourse roams about everywhere, reaching indiscriminately those with understanding no less than those who have no business with it, and it [writing] doesn't know whom it should speak and to whom it should not. And when it is faulted and attacked unfairly, it always needs its father's [the writer's] support; alone, it can neither defend itself nor come to its own support.

           - - -
What is Socrates' proposed solution, then? A combination of two things: (1) of course, the so-called Socratic method (elenchus in Greek) of refutation, that teases out better hypotheses by "identifying and eliminating contradictions", and (2) the "art of dialectic", i.e. the art of investigating the truth, which Plato makes Socrates use in his later dialogues such as the Republic. I'm sure we don't miss the irony here—we gain many of Socrates' insights, regardless of what we think of them, thanks to Plato's writing.

PS: I agree with you on books, modulo this: it's more likely to see pigs flying than to see "books starting to slowly fade away" :-)

[1] This English translation (by Nehamas & Woodruff) is excellent: https://www.hackettpublishing.com/philosophy/phaedrus

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