Live data from Hacker News

Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

benwajdi.com

41–50 of 383 posts

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#42
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you somewhat, but there's something unique about the internet I think is dangerous: there's no clear boundaries of when to stop. Radio stations would stop broadcasting, you reach the end of a book, and tv shows end. But, the internet just keeps going. You can just keep scrolling and clicking through website after website until you die, with very little prompt that it's time to stop.

You go to the next book to read in the same way you click on the next link on the web.

Yes but with substantially more friction. I have to stand up, walk over to my bookshelf, go through my books, grab one, sit back down, and start reading vs click

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#43
I strongly dislike the continued push to categorize bad habits using technology as an addiction. Addiction is not a description of a behavior that you think is bad and wish to change. Addiction is life damaging compulsive action that you wish you could control but can't due to psychological and sometimes physical dependence. If you are using technology as a means of escapism and it becomes a detriment to your health, for example you start struggling with person hygiene, you delay or miss appointments or meetings, you forgo or isolate yourself from your social support, and you see the negative effects of choosing technology and yet don't change your actions, then it can be considered an addiction.

Getting distracted while reading the paper edition of a book and googling something isn't an addiction or "withdrawal effects", it means you find that book boring.

The reason I, and I imagine many others enjoy, reading digitally is because of two main reasons. One is the sheer abundance of new reading materials I will find interesting. I no longer feel an urge to spend my time and energy on writing that's obtuse as a way of considering myself enlightened for having finished reading it. I value my time differently because of choices technology presents me with. The second reason I prefer reading digitally is the accessibility of the discussion and conversations around whatever I'm reading. It's easier to create and engage with others regarding a piece of writing thanks to technology.

Sometimes I wonder if people, like the author, who decide to forgo the use of internet during reading use it positively, the way I do. Any word or phrase I don't understand can be instantly looked up. I can learn the context about the setting an author uses, like looking up pictures of certain types of geography.

The biggest thing that I think the people who decide to go paper only miss out on is the novel ways in which writing is evolving. Fanfiction and independent publishing is a lot easier when it is digital only. Textbooks are becoming better at incorporating web technologies, for example I'm learning a new programming language and the ability to test and run exercises at the end of each section is so helpful in keeping me engaged. There are digital choose your own adventure stories and visual novel games that immerse me in a way no book ever will. The simple ability to copy and paste is groundbreaking when I want to interact with the text.

Many of the downsides the author lists as negatives of digital reading seems to actually be regarding people skimming instead of intentional reading. I would argue that this has more to do with people being conditioned to no longer waste time and poorly written articles that are 90% fluff and 10% content. The biggest problem for me has been the current state of local news articles. A single story reworded and posted multiple times by different news agencies in order to generate content and keep people engaged on their site. I'm not sure if clickbait news articles are gone or if I just have gotten better at filtering them out.

But it's necessary to try to read because the old mediums of news delivery are dying. Why wait for the familiar well spoken news anchor to tell you the most important events of the day over the radio or tv when you can look up the details yourself online? Twitter is one of the most current ways to stay updated on a story because people report live.

The world has become a place where using the internet to stay up to date and read is necessary. People have adapted to having a constant stream of information that can keep them occupied. Most people aren't clinically addicted to the internet, people just don't want to miss information that feels important at the time it's released.

I love my ereader. Books aren't going anywhere. The romantic experience of what past generations defined as reading is disappearing. Some people have a harder time adapting to that truth. Reading to me has never been about the paper, the tangibility, or the fact that you don't need electricity. The most important thing about reading, to me, has been accessibility. I have read an entire harry potter books on an ipod touch, bored in class, while in high school. I do not consider myself a poor student and neither did my teachers. I enjoyed the story just as much as everyone else. I appreciate some people value the concept of physical books more than I do. The doesn't change the fact that the value of writing comes from the ability to convey ideas to another, the medium is an afterthought.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#44
post #34
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You go to the next book to read in the same way you click on the next link on the web.

Or even more obviously, keep clicking and scrolling to the next channel on TV. Not that much these days, because everyone switched away from cable onto the streaming services, but it should still be an easy comparison that is understood by most here.

Broadcast TV stations used to stop broadcasting every night. By midnight or 1:00 or so, none of the three or four channels you could receive was showing anything at all.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#45
post #36

HN represents a wellspring of deeper reading than is generally afforded by the current entertainment cruft portals of the web - reddit, FB, insta, USA today, financial times, etc etc down to the SEO hellholes of recipe sites, youtube product placement; you get the idea. Let's appreciate HN for the quality of reading material and its curb on our drift to the rest of the 'popular' web. And I don't think I'm alone in al…

I used to read books all the time. I spent most of my waking hours as a teenager reading books. I’m 35 now and can barely hold attention on anything, I read maybe 3 books a year if I’m lucky. Even on Hacker News I almost exclusively read and comment on the comments, not the actual article unless I see someone says “have you read the article?” I don’t really know why. I have 8+ hours a day screentime on my iPhone, whi…

I'm the same way. As a teen I'd sit down with a several hundred page book and spend an entire day reading the whole thing. These days I spend my spare time on reddit/HN or gaming (which I did in my teen years as well). Much less reading, although I aspire to read more and have a long backlog on my Kindle.

Maybe I'll commit to reading an hour a day or something. I certainly have the free time. In fact, I'll start now. Wish me luck.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#46
Socrates famously hated the written form, not because it was technologically advanced for its time, but because it was "dead": you can't have a conversation with a piece of writing, or ask the author to explain something that's on the page.

I disagree (and agree, indirectly, with the OP): deadness is a feature, not a bug. The problem with Internet writing is not just its addictive nature, it's groupthink. It is too much alive. You have to either follow popular opinion, or oppose it vehemently; tangential or orthogonal thinking is almost impossible.

Books, because they are not part of an immediate, global conversation where people share opinions and judgements and signal their virtue to one another, are something very different and allow for a very different experience than any written text found online.

Maybe books will slowly fade; but I think it's unlikely they would ever completely disappear, as they offer something unique not found anywhere else.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#47
post #36

HN represents a wellspring of deeper reading than is generally afforded by the current entertainment cruft portals of the web - reddit, FB, insta, USA today, financial times, etc etc down to the SEO hellholes of recipe sites, youtube product placement; you get the idea. Let's appreciate HN for the quality of reading material and its curb on our drift to the rest of the 'popular' web. And I don't think I'm alone in al…

I used to read books all the time. I spent most of my waking hours as a teenager reading books. I’m 35 now and can barely hold attention on anything, I read maybe 3 books a year if I’m lucky. Even on Hacker News I almost exclusively read and comment on the comments, not the actual article unless I see someone says “have you read the article?” I don’t really know why. I have 8+ hours a day screentime on my iPhone, whi…

Are you me?

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#48

An aside, I find it a bit interesting that at some point we stopped talking about internet and game addiction. It used to be a hot topic, but I guess now that we are all completely addicted after decade of intense behavioral experimentation, none of us are interested in reading about it anymore.

It's like saying we have a driving addiction or a going to work addiction. Not everything can or should be couched in that kind of language. I've always found articles about internet and game addiction to be incredibly myopic, assuming that the "normal" of the 60's or 70's or 80's is somehow universal or worthy of being preserved, and that any deviation from it is an illness.

Addiction exists, though. I often browse Twitter for no particular reason. Six months ago I changed my year of birth for something like 2017 because I was annoyed it was compulsory. That resulted in an immediate suspension, as Twitter forbids minors to use it (rightfully so); the suspension would only be lifted if I submitted an ID.

At first I thought "who cares?" But then I found myself in want of browsing the (few) people I follow, and eventually did submit an ID to have my account restored.

I get nothing out of Twitter. Absolutely zero value. Still, apparently, I can't live without it. That's a problem.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#49
post #36

HN represents a wellspring of deeper reading than is generally afforded by the current entertainment cruft portals of the web - reddit, FB, insta, USA today, financial times, etc etc down to the SEO hellholes of recipe sites, youtube product placement; you get the idea. Let's appreciate HN for the quality of reading material and its curb on our drift to the rest of the 'popular' web. And I don't think I'm alone in al…

I used to read books all the time. I spent most of my waking hours as a teenager reading books. I’m 35 now and can barely hold attention on anything, I read maybe 3 books a year if I’m lucky. Even on Hacker News I almost exclusively read and comment on the comments, not the actual article unless I see someone says “have you read the article?” I don’t really know why. I have 8+ hours a day screentime on my iPhone, whi…

I would give you more credit and say the landscape of how content and news is delivered has changed. Many articles are written in a way to generate engagement first and then inform. I don't feel bad about not wasting time on clickbait or sensationalized articles. The comments section is a good litmus test to see if something is worth spending my time on. I imagine you've learned the same habit.

When you were younger, I imagine books were the primary way in which you learned new things. Now there's fantastic blog posts, articles, video summaries, and discourse about basically everything. Multiple people don't have to independently spend energy distilling the same article over and over in order to have a meaningful conversation about it. With a place where I trust the people discussing something, I don't have to spend energy verifying their conclusions myself. That frees up time to do other things.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#50

Internet is the new boogeyman. TV used to be it. Radio was it one time. Hell, _novels_ were treated this way. The one thing they all have in common is being new behavior patterns that people can worry and kvetch about.

Most moral panics are in-retrospect entertainment. But some are on the money.
Post reply on HN