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Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

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Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#91

Post by camillomiller »

> “Isn’t the essence of the Apple product that you achieve coolness simply by virtue of owning it? It doesn’t even matter what you’re creating on your Mac Air. Simply using a Mac Air, experiencing the elegant design of its hardware and software, is a pleasure in itself, like walking down a street in Paris. Whereas, when you’re working on some clunky, utilitarian PC, the only thing to enjoy is the quality of your work itself.”

Whoever writes this lacks knowledge of the world, and yet decides to express an opinion on it. The fact that it’s a celebrated author like Franzen, makes it even worse. A “Mac Air” is a wondrous machine. It’s so good that it makes you FORGET about the machine so much better than a clunky PC. So, if anything, the opposite of what Franzen write is actually true.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#92

Post by camillomiller »

wincy wrote: post #36
senortumnus wrote: post #22

HN represents a wellspring of deeper reading than is generally afforded by the current entertainment cruft portals of the web - reddit, FB, insta, USA today, financial times, etc etc down to the SEO hellholes of recipe sites, youtube product placement; you get the idea. Let's appreciate HN for the quality of reading material and its curb on our drift to the rest of the 'popular' web. And I don't think I'm alone in al…

I used to read books all the time. I spent most of my waking hours as a teenager reading books. I’m 35 now and can barely hold attention on anything, I read maybe 3 books a year if I’m lucky. Even on Hacker News I almost exclusively read and comment on the comments, not the actual article unless I see someone says “have you read the article?” I don’t really know why. I have 8+ hours a day screentime on my iPhone, whi…

My friend, you just described a form of depression. Not inferring anything from an online comment, but you may want to tackle the issue from a different perspective. All the best. If you’re fine and happy, I’m sorry for my comment.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#93

Post by camillomiller »

Fannon wrote: post #65
wincy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to read books all the time. I spent most of my waking hours as a teenager reading books. I’m 35 now and can barely hold attention on anything, I read maybe 3 books a year if I’m lucky. Even on Hacker News I almost exclusively read and comment on the comments, not the actual article unless I see someone says “have you read the article?” I don’t really know why. I have 8+ hours a day screentime on my iPhone, whi…

So I come from where you come from. However, I have mostly (60-80%?) retained my ability to focus on reading without distraction. But there has been something lost and sometimes it feels like an uphill battle to retain your ability to concentrate on one thing at a time. Would be curious what makes a difference here? I did some conscious choices, not sure how they contribute but I have the impression that each of them…

Very relatable list.

Kindle also really ignited my love for reading again this year. I think it tricks my brain a bit into thinking “oh, it’s an electronic device anyway” :D Another thing that helped, was a bit of a challenge with my partner, reading books in bed together, and having reading dates, when we would just snug on the sofa reading each other their own book.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#94

Post by camillomiller »

bambax wrote: post #46

Socrates famously hated the written form, not because it was technologically advanced for its time, but because it was "dead": you can't have a conversation with a piece of writing, or ask the author to explain something that's on the page. I disagree (and agree, indirectly, with the OP): deadness is a feature, not a bug. The problem with Internet writing is not just its addictive nature, it's groupthink. It is too m…

Well, the Internet conversation mediated by the concept of engagement wasn’t what Socrates had in mind opposing writing. The value of well constructed and structured dialogue is enormous. If it’s between two people, it’s already quite powerful, then you add complexity by adding an additional voice. We’ve been doing this for millennia, and it works, it’s just not what the internet translated.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#95

Post by camillomiller »

bambax wrote: post #48
standardUser wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like saying we have a driving addiction or a going to work addiction. Not everything can or should be couched in that kind of language. I've always found articles about internet and game addiction to be incredibly myopic, assuming that the "normal" of the 60's or 70's or 80's is somehow universal or worthy of being preserved, and that any deviation from it is an illness.

Addiction exists, though. I often browse Twitter for no particular reason. Six months ago I changed my year of birth for something like 2017 because I was annoyed it was compulsory. That resulted in an immediate suspension, as Twitter forbids minors to use it (rightfully so); the suspension would only be lifted if I submitted an ID. At first I thought "who cares?" But then I found myself in want of browsing the (few)…

>I get nothing out of twitter.

That’s what made me quit Facebook. Best decision ever. I do miss the random international friend update from time to time, but nothing vital.

Still working on Twitter.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#96

Post by math_denial »

knaik94 wrote: post #68
betwixthewires wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you're saying. Still though, you drive to get places or for fun sometimes, some people do it for sport for a living, but you don't find yourself just compulsively driving 8 hours a day. There are people that do find themselves staring at a phone 8 hours a day. The word addiction might be thrown around a little too loosely than it should be, but there's definitely widespread addiction to social media…

Staring at a phone doing what? Swiping to refresh on social media for hours and hours at a time? Using a phone is like going to the library, what you do there is what actually matters. Checking social media can be thought of as asking a librarian what new books are in. If you're asking every minute of every hour for 8 hours, then I can see that being a problem. But that's not really how people use the phone. You chec…

>Staring at a phone doing what? Swiping to refresh on social media for hours and hours at a time?

Yes, for the technologically-not-literate people that I know, Internet = social media, and they totally spend every waking hour refresh the page to see "what's new". I used to do that on reddit.

>check email, you read news articles, you look at posts from friends on fb or instagram, you interact with people in a comments section, you take or share pictures, you have music or video essays playing to help you focus on work, you message coworkers, coordinate a meetup in a group chat, among other things.

Half of this thing are mental garbage, the other half are FOMO and outrage economy, so not doing them may result in a positive outcome.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#97

Post by jdavis703 »

I find I get my best reading done or can bang out an unusually amount code while I’m on a long flight or passenger rail (Amtrak) without fast, stable internet.

I would love if someone opens up a no-internet cafe. And you can pay an optional, arbitrary “deposit” where if you leave early you get charged whatever amount you deposited.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#98

Post by jimmygrapes »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #69
bentcorner wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the same way. As a teen I'd sit down with a several hundred page book and spend an entire day reading the whole thing. These days I spend my spare time on reddit/HN or gaming (which I did in my teen years as well). Much less reading, although I aspire to read more and have a long backlog on my Kindle. Maybe I'll commit to reading an hour a day or something. I certainly have the free time. In fact, I'll start now.…

My experience matches those of others in this thread. I barely read anymore and find it difficul to focus. Largely, my tastes have calcified and narrowed quite a lot. I used to be an adventurous reader and always tried random books I saw on the library shelves, but these days I find it difficult to get into something new, and if I do read a book I've probably read it before. I think if I just start reading it'll come…

One thing that seems to have helped some of my friends who have experienced the same issue of not wanting to read anymore is to find one particular book or style they liked before and go deep into that author's backlog or similar styles. And to add to that, don't be afraid of reading pulpy fiction; you're not trying to impress anybody with what you're reading, you're doing it for yourself. Enjoy it. Read young adult fiction, read Stephen King and James Patterson, read Beverly Cleary, whatever. As long as you're reading, you're building that bit of your attention span back, and you can move on from there to other things.

I fear there is a big subconscious element to it in "smart people" circles where it almost feels bad to be reading without learning.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#99

Post by 2ion »

I jealously preserve my time and habit of reading lots of books because it's a main contrast to digital life. A welcome pause from the distractions of nonlinearity in online media and electronic devices (such as e reading devices). It's relaxing. Physical books are still a favorite pastime.

Re: Internet addiction and the habit of book reading

#100

Post by bobiny »

I read less books than when I was school age. I have a couple that are sitting in Books app that I read a few pages at a time.

I think the “problem” is twofold: 1) phones are too much 2) too many books

1: using a book used to be easier than computer. You had to turn it on, wait, sit in a chair. With book it’s just grab and start reading in any position. People were/are reading standing up in Moscow metro. Computer was also limited in what you can do with it: I had a few games, a few programms and if I wanted more, it’s either going to a store for CD or using a slow Dial-up (check if no one is talking on the phone or expecting a call). With smartphone now there is Youtube, games and a ton of text that talks back to you (like HN or Twitter).

2: I find that many books and movies just say too much. I went out of the movie theater from Hellboy reboot when they started explaining the lore right away. I don’t mind a bit of exposition, but a film is not the right medium imo. Similarly with books: I feel like at least some of them could be a series of Substack posts if not Twitter threads.

So I agree that books are dying out a bit, but I’m optimistic that they are being replaced with mediums more suitable for the message. Also I hope there will be more specialized gadgets like ReMarkable tabled that you can’t do everything with.

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