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Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

chicagotribune.com

61–70 of 153 posts

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#61
I don't really like to admit it, but anyone who thinks it's just the "poor old algorithm" doing what it thinks is fair is misinformed.

Part of my core day job work involves identifying real vs not real people and also uses the same technology to drive everything - lucene. An algorithm that refuses to attempt identification beyond what data yelp itself stores is clearly in denial of the "mountain" of data available on people in the form of public web apis on the internet. I could write an "algorithm"/analyzer that does a better job than what yelp is currently doing in a day.

At the end of the day the biggest loser in all of this is probably yelp's users. Inaccurate reviews means you're getting inaccurate results on finding places local to you...which means the tool isn't nearly as useful to you as an end consumer. They might want to just sit down and find another way to get the same sales figures without sacrificing the quality of their product. Otherwise all it will take is someone else to come along and give people the right product to put them out of business. These stories that keep appearing on the internet about Yelp are increasingly becoming harder to ignore for everyone, which is sad for all the hard working engineers at Yelp who's only desire is to deliver a kick ass product. Lame

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#62

Extortion. This is the racket of the 21st Century. Once you got the eyeballs, you call every business in your database and threaten to cut its legs out from under it unless it pays up. Google's running more or less the same racket. It's "soft"...there are no threats, exactly. But imagine if the Chicago Tribune called vendors and threatened to run a miserable review of them if they didn't pay? So why hasn't that happe…

Ironically, mild extortion is the point of the Tribune's "What's Your Problem?" column. People who can't get results from local businesses write the column, where they're publicly shamed into doing something to help the consumer.

If you consider consumer advocacy columns to be a form of extortion... consider that the newspaper doesn't request money from the subject to "fix" the column.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#63
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it's algorithmic doesn't mean it's legal or clean. I can write an algorithm that searches your cookies for porn sites, figures out who employs you, and emails you a customized extortion threat. If their algorithm works the way it's described in the article, then it'll downrank or remove 10 legitimate, positive posts from real customers if they're made in one day, and will preserve and uprank 1 illegitima…

The way I understand this is, that he was not asked to pay to have the negative review removed, just for advertising, which was totally unrelated to his reviews.

If there was a reasonable or non-negligible possibility that removal of the positive reviews resulted from his failure to pay the bribe, then the onus is on the company to provide records to the contrary. That's the point of subpoenaing the poster of the negative comment that survived; not to sue him directly, but to establish the mechanics of and facts arising from Yelp's algorithm, and to establish a pattern of extortion.

Consider: Yelp's algorithm could just as easily flag EVERYONE who gets a single star review for a sales phone call.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#64
post #44

Extortion. This is the racket of the 21st Century. Once you got the eyeballs, you call every business in your database and threaten to cut its legs out from under it unless it pays up. Google's running more or less the same racket. It's "soft"...there are no threats, exactly. But imagine if the Chicago Tribune called vendors and threatened to run a miserable review of them if they didn't pay? So why hasn't that happe…

Am I the only one who believes that yelp is prolly telling the truth and that it was just a coincidence? It sounds quite plausible to me that their algorithms work in the way, that are described in the article.

No, you are not. I am fairly confident that Yelp behaves above-board. It has a few hundred sales people making a lot of calls and I don't doubt that there are isolated incidents of questionably behavior. I also believe there is a lot of mis-interpretation. For example, advertisers get to choose one review to display at the top of the list. This feature is usually twisted by detractors beyond recognition.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#65

In case you want to dig in deeper, Frank Brader's dog business on Yelp now has 4 stars from 5 reviews: http://www.yelp.com/biz/haus-von-brader-dog-obedience-traini... Justin G, the negative reviewer, was a Yelp Elite member from 2006-2008: http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=z25c9TyWY1TdVEGxkj34...

I'd get rid of the punitive filtering too if negative press came out. I wonder if "Elite" indicates paid? Yelp does pay, or has paid in the past, some reviewers.

No need to speculate about "elite": http://www.yelp.com/elite

You can argue that the benefits of being "elite" equate to compensation but that's a pretty slippery slope and I'm not sure entirely useful.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#66
post #4

This raises several important issues. The first is that most people don't review things. No matter how easy it is the vast majority of the population just won't do it. The simpler you make it the more that will but the simpler it is the less useful it becomes. This has several important implications. - It makes local hard to scale because your audience size is that much smaller that reviews are far less reliable both…

"It makes local hard to scale because your audience size is that much smaller that reviews are far less reliable both in frequency and volume" I've been a member of Angie's List for over 2 years now. It's not only saved me countless amounts of money over choosing nationally-advertised service companies for stuff like plumbing and HVAC work, but it's saved me tons of aggravation filtering out the honest, hard-working…

I love the philosophy and have been keeping an eye on Angie's List for a long time but unfortunately it still isn't available in my area, although it looks like they are starting to think about Canada (province is mentioned here and there on their site).

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#67
post #35
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can review it on Yelp.com: http://www.yelp.com/biz/yelp-san-francisco

Reading this was fascinating and considering the number of unhappy reviewers over happy, their own 3-star rating seems far-fetched.

I'll wager $100 (to charity) that their 3500 ratings equate to a 3 star rating.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#68
Yelp's filtering algorithm is terrible. Purely anecdotal, but: I've tried writing reviews on Yelp several times. When I first started reviewing and my reviews were getting filtered out, I'd think "OK, maybe I just need to continue reviewing and eventually Yelp will realize I'm not a faker". After about 20 reviews (spread over a couple weeks, most of which still remain flagged), I got pissed and gave up.

How does Amazon solve this problem? AFAICT, Amazon doesn't filter out any reviews, and I've never noticed fake reviews being a problem. Are people simply less inclined to give fake-glowing or fake-terrible reviews on Amazon? (Makes somewhat sense to me, since Amazon is less "personal".)

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#69

In case you want to dig in deeper, Frank Brader's dog business on Yelp now has 4 stars from 5 reviews: http://www.yelp.com/biz/haus-von-brader-dog-obedience-traini... Justin G, the negative reviewer, was a Yelp Elite member from 2006-2008: http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=z25c9TyWY1TdVEGxkj34...

I'd get rid of the punitive filtering too if negative press came out. I wonder if "Elite" indicates paid? Yelp does pay, or has paid in the past, some reviewers.

They don't get paid. I've been Elite for about 3 years now. But they do get invited to Elite only parties which they get to sample free food and drinks.

Re: Lone Yelp review dogs business owner

#70
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are some pretty bold accusations based on rather thin evidence. Are you suggesting that such a service is incapable of running above-board? Is there anything Yelp could do to prove to you that it is operating in an ethical and reasonable manner?

Yelp seems to have had a lot of bad press for this kind of thing and has had at least one class action suit, alleging extortion, levelled against it: http://yelpscam.com/negative-yelp-press.html

A lawsuit filed against them is not proof of anything. That same suit was thrown out.
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