Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses • Hacker News Board

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#41

Post by ysavir » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

teh_infallible wrote: post #33

sdeframond wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other industries they call this "sales": getting rid of current perishable stock before buying fresh one. It's there, we might as well use it.

I was going to call it “marketing.” I am amazed to see people discuss what are essentially the marketing claims of a corrupt industry as if they had scientific validity. Substitute the word “immunity” with “blockchain” or “Artificial Intelligence” and maybe more people would see through it.

Perhaps, but without any actual statistics or expert claims to back it up, this doesn't seem to me a sound rationale against which to take risks with our health.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#42

Post by dragontamer » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

andy_ppp wrote: post #14

Realistically we are probably going to be exposed to Omicron in the next 3 weeks here in the UK, is there much point in having a booster right now? Are we sure that it will actually be providing protection if I got a booster today and got COVID in, say, the next 7 days?

I took the Moderna booster.

In my case, I had fatigue and cramps within 24 hours (not as bad as the 2nd dose, but felt worse than the 1st dose). Clearly, my immune system was responding immediately.

The stats say I'm not fully protected until 2-weeks later. But I know for a fact that my body was reacting within a day.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#43

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

andy_ppp wrote: post #14

Realistically we are probably going to be exposed to Omicron in the next 3 weeks here in the UK, is there much point in having a booster right now? Are we sure that it will actually be providing protection if I got a booster today and got COVID in, say, the next 7 days?

[deleted]

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#44

Post by awillen » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:38 PM UTC

kgwxd wrote: post #20

robbmorganf wrote: post #12

Does anyone understand why a third dose of the same vaccine improves immunity to Omicron? I'm willing to believe the empirical evidence that boosters make a meaningful difference, but I can't figure out intuitively why the same mRNA a third time helps to address this new spike.

Is it not just timing? I thought the effectiveness of the vaccines only lasted around 6 months. In the US 18+ were able to get it 7 or 8 months ago.

My understanding is that they've studied people with 2 vs. 3 shots, both groups having received their most recent shot in a similar timeframe to account for that.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#45

Post by xyzzy123 » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:38 PM UTC

teh_infallible wrote: post #33

sdeframond wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other industries they call this "sales": getting rid of current perishable stock before buying fresh one. It's there, we might as well use it.

I was going to call it “marketing.” I am amazed to see people discuss what are essentially the marketing claims of a corrupt industry as if they had scientific validity. Substitute the word “immunity” with “blockchain” or “Artificial Intelligence” and maybe more people would see through it.

It's already in the supply chain, it's already approved, and it works - even if it's not as good as a variant-specific booster would be.

Timeliness matters a lot when you have doubling times measured in days, even 2-3 months and it could be too late.

Finally, it reduces people's natural hesitancy about side effects of the "new vaccine".

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#46

Post by throwawayacc2 » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:38 PM UTC

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #36

sdeframond wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other industries they call this "sales": getting rid of current perishable stock before buying fresh one. It's there, we might as well use it.

You really think the CDC and other govt and NGO organizations, as an international coordinated group effort, are in bed with pharma companies, plotting with them to falsify data and craft false recommendations, just so those farma companies can make more $$? I mean, I actually do think that pharma companies are vile, have successfully gained significant regulatory capture, and can influence policy through their own m…

> You really think the CDC and other govt and NGO organizations, as an international coordinated group effort, are in bed with pharma companies, plotting with them to craft false recommendations, just so those farma companies can make more $$?

Yes.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#47

Post by tehjoker » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

andy_ppp wrote: post #14

Realistically we are probably going to be exposed to Omicron in the next 3 weeks here in the UK, is there much point in having a booster right now? Are we sure that it will actually be providing protection if I got a booster today and got COVID in, say, the next 7 days?

Yes, get it ASAP. You should not assume that you'll get it that soon and therefore it's pointless even if many many people will. The booster also triggers a secondary immune response which rises faster and bigger than the primary response. Get your boosters ASAP!

You want to go into this crisis with shields up, weapons online.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#48

Post by eightysixfour » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #32

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it is less about it being the 2nd or 3rd shot and more about how recently you received your last shot? I got my 2nd shot 7 months ago and we've already heard that protection fades over time, so maybe the booster just works because it boosts, not because it is really any different than my 2nd shot.

> Maybe is ... about how recently you received your last shot .. not because it is really any different than my 2nd shot. No. That appears not be the situation. Immunity shortly after the thirds shot is substantially higher than shortly after the second https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1460191035531878405 https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1458026852249919490

I have seen speculation that the second dose was given too quickly.

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#49

Post by chiefalchemist » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

valine wrote: post #39

makomk wrote: post #15

This news came out shortly after the UK mandated proof of two vaccine doses (or a negative test, though there's some suspicion this option will be removed like in many other European countries) for access to nightclubs and other large events. It is also not surprising and was expected when the decision was taken. Between this and other recent news I don't think trust in the establishment is exactly high right now.

The sooner they mandate a third does the better. Not sure why this news would lower trust in the government, can you elaborate on that?

Because the promises aren't panning out, and with each stutter step comes another heavy handed proposal (e.g., tracking, vax passports, etc.)

In desperation the public has abandoned "trust but verify." Put another way, given the lessons of history, governments should be trusted less, not more. The default shouldn't not be, "Sure, whatever you say."

Re: Omicron largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses

#50

Post by matthewmacleod » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

Also important to note:

The study finds no evidence of Omicron having lower severity than Delta, judged by either the proportion of people testing positive who report symptoms, or by the proportion of cases seeking hospital care after infection.

With the qualification:

However, hospitalisation data remains very limited at this time.

So, hopefully this proves to not be the case. Given the speed at which this variant appears to be ripping through the UK—with cases doubling every ~48 hours—it could quickly cause quite a lot of pressure on the healthcare system – not to mention the knock-on effects of so many people isolating.