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Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#221

Post by JadeNB »

jtbayly wrote: post #200
JadeNB wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can't demand that parents be held accountable for what their children do while also forbidding parents from knowing what their children are reading, watching, writing, hearing, or saying. There's no reason that knowledge has to be garnered surreptitiously. (If your answer is "if it's not surreptitious, then kids will try to bypass it" … well, they will anyway.)

Nobody said it had to be surreptitious. And the app we are all discussing is explicitly not surreptitious. If you go back and reread the original ask HN comment, he says that it is visible.

> Nobody said it had to be surreptitious.

The comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29571643) to which you were responding (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29571750) says:

> You're asking me? Ok: it should not be possible for you to install surreptitious screen recording software on an iPhone.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#222

Post by iamtheworstdev »

nyuszika7h wrote: post #23

Sorry, but "others got away with it" is not a good argument. I would personally view your software as invasive malware, no matter how good your intentions may be. The right course of action here is to report all similar apps to Apple and have them taken down as well.

It's a perfectly valid argument. Apple always says their rules are for everyone and applied equally. They testify to this in court. And yet, it doesn't seem to be the case here.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#223

Post by throw10920 »

bijant wrote: post #13

I‘m sorry for You. I can see how you‘d think that your software is providing society a service. And yet from my perspective your software is malware. I don’t think you have considered the legal ramifications of your software in all markets where the app store is offered. Aside from the legal risk to You, there is also a reputational risk to Apple, a company trying to rebrand itself by focussing on privacy (CSAM nonwi…

> And yet from my perspective your software is malware.

Your perspective is objectively incorrect. Something cannot be "malware" if it is intentionally installed for a purpose beneficial to the installer, doesn't contain hidden anti-features, or doesn't make itself intentionally hard to uninstall (modulo the obvious cases where that's a feature, such as find-my-stolen-device tools, and this one).

> I think you should move on with your life.

This is useless and the opposite of helpful. If you don't have anything constructive to say on HN, perhaps you shouldn't say anything at all.

> I‘m sorry for You. I can see how you‘d think that your software is providing society a service.

...and this is downright condescending.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#224

Post by throw10920 »

nyuszika7h wrote: post #23

Sorry, but "others got away with it" is not a good argument. I would personally view your software as invasive malware, no matter how good your intentions may be. The right course of action here is to report all similar apps to Apple and have them taken down as well.

> I would personally view your software as invasive malware

Your view is objectively incorrect. Something cannot be "malware" if it is intentionally installed for a purpose beneficial to the installer, doesn't contain hidden anti-features, or doesn't make itself intentionally hard to uninstall (modulo the obvious cases where that's a feature, such as find-my-stolen-device tools, and this one).

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#225

Post by throw10920 »

p1necone wrote: post #97
camhart wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put on the hat of the end user. Keep in mind the end user is a child, or someone struggling with an online addiction/behavior they want to quit. They welcome the app, but those issues are somewhat personal. There's a balancing act I'm trying to walk here, of being reasonably suspicious while also not publishing for everyone who peeks over their shoulder that they're using an app like this. Again, if the red dot matte…

You seem to be sticking a hood over your eyes and pretending that your app is only used for the most morally sound use cases you can think of. You've written something that enables abusive relationships and helicopter parenting and you should be ashamed.

Please keep this kind of emotionally-manipulative, anti-intellectual flamebait off of HN.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#226

Post by throw10920 »

tptacek wrote: post #102
camhart wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I removed a red dot that didn't belong on my logo and wasn't being required by Apple with any other apps.

For everyone else reading, here's the subthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29570450

"If you click on the notification on MacOS, a menu pops up indicating the device is being monitored and includes instructions for how to uninstall the app though if you do an alert is sent indicating that you did."

How is changing the logo "removing" a "conspicuous warning indicator that screen recording was enabled" when the app literally tells you that the device is being monitored?

There's no meaningful difference between a new logo appearing that you can tap on to see that your device is being monitored, and the same logo with a red dot. A curious user is going to tap both of them, and a lazy user won't bother with either.

Claiming that altering the app icon without anything more (e.g. changing where/when the icon is visible, impersonating a system icon) is "removing a conspicuous warning indicator" is straight-up deceptive.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#227

Post by throw10920 »

agentdrtran wrote: post #103

You develop stalkerware, Apple booting apps like you is one of the few good aspects of the app store.

This is factually incorrect - it is not stalkerware. The app makes it very clear that it is installed and watching you.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#228

Post by throw10920 »

Read other Reddit+HN threads on what other people have done in your situation.

The main way that people get accounts reinstated in cases like these are the situation blowing up on HN and a lot of people getting upset (at Apple/Google (the other major offender)). This is unlikely to work in your case, because (judging by the comments) a lot of people are offended by the very idea that you'd develop an app to help people overcome a porn addiction, and additionally are withholding useful advice and making false/deceptive claims[1] as a result.

Your best shot is to look for actual legal advice given to other people in your situation and see if you can follow it.

Kudos to you for developing something like this, by the way - I might use the Android version to get accountability for myself. If you look carefully, you'll see the the majority of objections that the other comments are making are riddled with misunderstandings, deception, and moral outrage - I can't see a single legitimate argument that your project is actually harmful.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29571229

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#229

Post by agentdrtran »

FunHearing3443 wrote: post #196
agentdrtran wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The business in this case is from a religious extremist and this kind of software is very frequently used without the user's consent.

That is a frankly bigoted statement and one I'm use to seeing more on Reddit than HN. It is designed to be used voluntarily, or as parental controls for children. This is not $evilTechCompany coming to suck up all of your data.

Apps like this are, by design, able (and arguably designed) to be used involuntarily. If you abusive spouse tells you to install it, what can you do?

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#230

Post by agentdrtran »

chris_wot wrote: post #166
agentdrtran wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The business in this case is from a religious extremist and this kind of software is very frequently used without the user's consent.

Do you have any evidence of the software being used without the end user's consent?

Check the feature list in the OP and compare to these: https://lmgtfy.app/?q=spouse+tracking+app
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