Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#81

Post by akyoan » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 8:42 PM UTC

nerdjon wrote: post #75

camhart wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You said other apps are fine, but are those other apps advertising themselves as parental controls or as stalking software? Search for "accountability software", and you'll find apps advertised in a very similar manner that have had no issues with Apple, with absolutely no mentioning of parental controls. > I took a look at your website https://truple.io and... there is very little mention of this being for parents…

I looked up a few alternatives and your website and marketing tell a very different story. "Online filth" is in your website header, so your kinda focusing on them. I looked at the reviews and your most recent one continues to reinforce something about "filth" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.camhart.ne... As far as not being used "on" someone. Again you have reviews from Spouses and Parents which wo…

I don’t get this. Porn is filth. What’s the problem with that categorization? We can’t both classify it as “oh it empowers women” and “lest a penis ever be shown anywhere.”

Which one is it?

Edit: lol @ “flagged”

Buncha idiots. Answer my question instead.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#82

Post by camhart » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 8:44 PM UTC

nerdjon wrote: post #75

camhart wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You said other apps are fine, but are those other apps advertising themselves as parental controls or as stalking software? Search for "accountability software", and you'll find apps advertised in a very similar manner that have had no issues with Apple, with absolutely no mentioning of parental controls. > I took a look at your website https://truple.io and... there is very little mention of this being for parents…

I looked up a few alternatives and your website and marketing tell a very different story. "Online filth" is in your website header, so your kinda focusing on them. I looked at the reviews and your most recent one continues to reinforce something about "filth" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.camhart.ne... As far as not being used "on" someone. Again you have reviews from Spouses and Parents which wo…

Suppose I'm addicted to porn and that it's damaging my marriage. I want to be free of it. But when I pick my phone up, I'm tempted to view it. I know I want to be free of it. I don't want my life to suffer any more as a result of it. But I need help, because in those weaker moments my will power isn't sufficient. This is where making it difficult to bypass comes in. Keep in mind difficult do bypass doesn't equal "can't be removed", it means it can be removed but an alert is sent if it is removed. They can't bypass it without triggering an alert, therefore it's not been bypassed (at least by my definition/use of the word bypass).

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#83

Post by detaro » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 8:46 PM UTC

camhart wrote: post #82

nerdjon wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked up a few alternatives and your website and marketing tell a very different story. "Online filth" is in your website header, so your kinda focusing on them. I looked at the reviews and your most recent one continues to reinforce something about "filth" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.camhart.ne... As far as not being used "on" someone. Again you have reviews from Spouses and Parents which wo…

Suppose I'm addicted to porn and that it's damaging my marriage. I want to be free of it. But when I pick my phone up, I'm tempted to view it. I know I want to be free of it. I don't want my life to suffer any more as a result of it. But I need help, because in those weaker moments my will power isn't sufficient. This is where making it difficult to bypass comes in. Keep in mind difficult do bypass doesn't equal "can…

You don't seem to be engaging with the parents point about your messaging at all with this comment. FWIW, this all reads like an excellent demonstration why this category of app isn't trusted.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#84

Post by tptacek » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 8:47 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #80

tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For instance, "Covenant Eye" (which: holy shit, how creepy is this!) always blurs screenshots. Yours apparently does opt-in blurring. I'm interested in the detective project of figuring out what red lines your app may have crossed, just because it's interesting. But cards on the table: none of these apps should be allowed on the app store. Maybe Apple just hasn't gotten around to shutting down "Covenant Eye" yet.

"Ever Accountable", another example, only works for a small list of applications --- if you're not on their VPN, you even have to use their browser. Your application takes random screenshots and advertises that it's hard to bypass, which is kind of the opposite of what "Ever Accountable" claims.

For "OurPact", the third comparable app, there's this fun review:

For the “premium” level with all the controls (which frankly is the service level any responsible parent will want), you have to back each kid’s phone up to iTunes on your (parent) laptop, then erase and reinstall each one with a new OurPact-controlled OS.

I'm starting to see a pattern here.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#85

Post by nerdjon » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 8:47 PM UTC

camhart wrote: post #82

nerdjon wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked up a few alternatives and your website and marketing tell a very different story. "Online filth" is in your website header, so your kinda focusing on them. I looked at the reviews and your most recent one continues to reinforce something about "filth" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.camhart.ne... As far as not being used "on" someone. Again you have reviews from Spouses and Parents which wo…

Suppose I'm addicted to porn and that it's damaging my marriage. I want to be free of it. But when I pick my phone up, I'm tempted to view it. I know I want to be free of it. I don't want my life to suffer any more as a result of it. But I need help, because in those weaker moments my will power isn't sufficient. This is where making it difficult to bypass comes in. Keep in mind difficult do bypass doesn't equal "can…

Again you are saying something very different here than any of your marketing.

If you want to make the choice to stop watching porn, that is fine. If you want to use software like this and you want to ask your spouse to help, that is fine.

But your marketing, your google play listing that I quoted it is not you making the choice. It is someone else "protecting" you and making the choice.

Quoting an exact quote from your google play listing. The very first sentence:

"Truple protects your loved ones against porn & other online filth. It holds your loved ones accountable in a way that's near impossible to bypass by capturing and sharing screenshots."

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#86

Post by scythe » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

camhart wrote: post #54

nerdjon wrote: post #47

You said other apps are fine, but are those other apps advertising themselves as parental controls or as stalking software? I took a look at your website https://truple.io and... there is very little mention of this being for parents. TBH looking at the website is... deeply concerning for anyone that would legitimately want to use this product. Especially on a spouse?!? I am willing to bet part of the issue is the ta…

> You said other apps are fine, but are those other apps advertising themselves as parental controls or as stalking software? Search for "accountability software", and you'll find apps advertised in a very similar manner that have had no issues with Apple, with absolutely no mentioning of parental controls. > I took a look at your website https://truple.io and... there is very little mention of this being for parents…

>filth

This is a sort of "smelly" word to see in an advertisement, in that referring to material as "filth" brings up memories/images of, for want of a better phrase, cultural intolerance. You may get better reception by calling such content "improper" or something less emotionally charged.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#87

Post by camhart » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #70

GVRV wrote: post #59

I don't understand why people are trying to guess the reason why Apple is doing this. I'm not a fan of this concept, but I wouldn't label it as malware to be used by abusive spouses and parents. If you read the FAQs on the website, it clearly states: Can I hide the Truple notification icon? No. Truple is voluntary use software, and is not intended (or allowed) to be used as spyware. All of our applications require a…

If you read the thread we're commenting on, you'll see that the author removed a conspicuous warning indicator that screen recording was enabled, because their competitors didn't seem to be required to provide one. We don't know who those competitors are, but we do know that the author deliberately made this surveillance app stealthier because they believed they'd get away with it.

I removed a red dot that didn't belong on my logo and wasn't being required by Apple with any other apps.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#88

Post by newaccount74 » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 8:50 PM UTC

camhart wrote: post #54

nerdjon wrote: post #47

You said other apps are fine, but are those other apps advertising themselves as parental controls or as stalking software? I took a look at your website https://truple.io and... there is very little mention of this being for parents. TBH looking at the website is... deeply concerning for anyone that would legitimately want to use this product. Especially on a spouse?!? I am willing to bet part of the issue is the ta…

> You said other apps are fine, but are those other apps advertising themselves as parental controls or as stalking software? Search for "accountability software", and you'll find apps advertised in a very similar manner that have had no issues with Apple, with absolutely no mentioning of parental controls. > I took a look at your website https://truple.io and... there is very little mention of this being for parents…

> Search for "accountability software", and you'll find apps advertised in a very similar manner

I googled a bit and found [1] and [2]. Their marketing is very very different from yours [3].

[1] looks very tasteful, considering they are basically spyware. It's a very positive spin with great copywriting.

[2] gives me some Christian vibes, it's not for me, but it still looks decent.

[3] on the other hand just looks really creepy. The copy is awkward and the hectic GIF with the screenshots and the bikini picture just gives me stalker vibes.

It's a question of taste. Great Mac and iPhone are done very tastefully. Truple is missing that.

(That doesn't mean that Apple only approves tasteful apps. There are a lot of poorly designed apps on the app store. But if you are doing something even slightly questionable, and your app looks a bit creepy, then Apple is not going to go out of their way to help you get it out there, even if you aren't breaking any explicit rules.)

[1]: https://accountable2you.com [2]: https://everaccountable.com/ref/61/ [3]: https://truple.io

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#89

Post by tptacek » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 8:50 PM UTC

camhart wrote: post #60

newaccount74 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure competitors aren't struggling with App review as well?

They've had apps in the app store for years, and MacOS apps notarized. If they're struggling, they're at least able to work with Apple where I'm not.

They're also more restricted than your app (one of them only works if you load the app by resetting the phone in iTunes; another always blurs screenshots; another only records screenshots from their own browser app).

I think you're doing something the App Store simply doesn't want you to be doing, and it's hard to fault them for that.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#90

Post by camhart » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 8:50 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #80

tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For instance, "Covenant Eye" (which: holy shit, how creepy is this!) always blurs screenshots. Yours apparently does opt-in blurring. I'm interested in the detective project of figuring out what red lines your app may have crossed, just because it's interesting. But cards on the table: none of these apps should be allowed on the app store. Maybe Apple just hasn't gotten around to shutting down "Covenant Eye" yet.

"Ever Accountable", another example, only works for a small list of applications --- if you're not on their VPN, you even have to use their browser. Your application takes random screenshots and advertises that it's hard to bypass, which is kind of the opposite of what "Ever Accountable" claims.

Look at the MacOS app.