Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #177

rmind wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few points: - The Budapest Memorandum was, unfortunately, not legally binding. Not justifying the lack of support from the West, but just pointing out an important aspect. - North Atlantic Treaty is legally binding. Also, the Baltic States already host a small multi-national contingent of NATO troops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Enhanced_Forward_Presence - It is also worth noting that the EU has mutual…

“Legally binding” makes me chuckle. “Legally binding” makes sense within a system where a mechanism of enforcement exists. Once you rise above the state, nothing exists, at least on a permanent basis. Ukraine is basically in a situation of “you don’t own what you cant defend through violence”. The Ukraine will lose another chunk of territory. Western nations will “decry this violation of sovereignty” and the UN will…

Post by gritzko » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

gritzko wrote: post #39

I observe the Ukrainian drama for many years. I strongly suspect that the actual game maybe the opposite of the picture in the media. Ukraine is looted to the bone and the economy is in downward spiral. The beneficiaries of the looting may need a war to write it all off. Meanwhile, if Putin takes Ukraine, he would shoulder a giant pile of debt, plus the responsibility for everything that happens. So the actual game m…

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #68

tomp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm certain that Israel's nukes and their strategic air strikes against Iran's nuclear/military facilities (preventing Iran from having nukes) contributes much more to their protection than a standing army. This situation is obviously amplified 10x in Lithuania (population 30% of Israel) vs Russia (population 170% Iran).

Israel has been in many conventional wars with it's neighbors since the day it was founded. In recent times their nukes protect them, but historically it was more about every man and women being either active military or reserve, along with an economy that is able to pay for being the best military in the region.

Post by drran » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

aa-jv wrote: post #126

reducesuffering wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western Europeans are generally ambivalent towards the threat from comfortable complacency. Have you met Ukrainians or Georgians? They're not NATO states. They understand full well the threat and seizures they're under and will tell you so. The closer the proximity to the Russian state, the more the people are concerned. Places like Poland and Slovakia are similar only somewhat less so.

Here in Austria, I know a lot of Ukraine and Georgian expats who don't have the issue with Russia that they do with the USA. These are just not vocal enough to warrant attention in Western media, nor does it serve the purpose of giving the American-led NATO powers a new purpose for existence.

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

abcd_f wrote: post #70

danlugo92 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only good outcome for the whole world is Putin and allies being ousted out of power and replaced by actual non-warmonger democrats. Imagine a future with Russia in the EU, best timeline. Nobody wants nuclear war, maybe some kind of super-sanctions would be the only recourse for the west, cut them off everything, and I mean everything.

Russia doesn’t give a fuck about Ukraine for as long as it’s not in Nato. Just like the US didn’t like Russian military presence on Cuba, they don’t want the US presence in Ukraine. It’s all fundamentally dead simple. Russia views Ukraine as a buffer country between itself and the West and will do anything to keep it that way.