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Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

znak.com

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Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#31

Post by eptcyka »

aa-jv wrote: post #22
rich_sasha wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of countries heavily dependent on Russian gas, Germany being one. I get it, from Spain it looks very different, but this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_in_the_European_energy_... shows how many countries depend on Russian gas. This should have been scary to Europe for at least a decade now, but sadly wasn't.

Europeans don't hate Russians as much as Americans do - probably because they've actually got Russians visiting and know that Russia doesn't really represent the threat that the American military-industrial complex needs you to believe is real in order to justify their trillion dollar misadventures and further subjugation of NATO member states into puppetry. In fact, a lot of Europeans would like to see peace made wi…

Coming from a post-soviet country, Europeans certainly have a diverse opinion of Russia, but most of it is negative. I don't see how peace could be made given their aggressive foreign policy and continued advances on all fronts that are acceptable. They're pushing their propaganda very hard across the border, and are leaning in hard on the russian speaking populations left in post-soviet countries to screw around.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#32

Post by jacquesm »

lnsru wrote: post #27

There is only way for country’s protection and it’s Israel’s way where whole country is also an army. Especially for countries near unfriendly countries like Russia in this submission. Because all the treaties and documents signed by politicians are absolutely worthless. Ukraine got rid of all the Soviet nuclear weapons and got lots of promises: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Secur... Now they…

> Will NATO come for let’s say Latvia or Lithuania? I honestly don’t think so.

I fear that you are right. And with Kaliningrad pretty much ideally positioned to pull another Donbass the stage is set for a lot of misery in Poland, Lithuania and possibly even Latvia and Estonia.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#33

Post by danlugo92 »

lnsru wrote: post #27

There is only way for country’s protection and it’s Israel’s way where whole country is also an army. Especially for countries near unfriendly countries like Russia in this submission. Because all the treaties and documents signed by politicians are absolutely worthless. Ukraine got rid of all the Soviet nuclear weapons and got lots of promises: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Secur... Now they…

The only good outcome for the whole world is Putin and allies being ousted out of power and replaced by actual non-warmonger democrats.

Imagine a future with Russia in the EU, best timeline.

Nobody wants nuclear war, maybe some kind of super-sanctions would be the only recourse for the west, cut them off everything, and I mean everything.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#34

Post by markx2 »

jmacd wrote: post #9

I think we in the west need something like a 'doctrine of the foregone conclusion'. Often things are very obvious, even notorious, but because we do not want to face the eventuality, we do things like negotiate or perseverate our denials all while the situation escalates. If NATO and the west are ready and willing to defend Ukraine (I suspect we are not), in which case a significant increase in our own presence would…

> Often things are very obvious, even notorious, but because we do not want to face the eventuality, we do things like negotiate or perseverate our denials all while the situation escalates.

There was an opinion piece on 9 Dec in The Daily Telegraph which points out that the West have 3 potential flashpoints: - Russia and Ukraine - China and Taiwan - Iran and their nuclear enrichment

The West can only hope that the three foreign countries do not decide to coordinate action.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/12/09/wests-nightm...

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#35

Post by 1cvmask »

BrazzVuvuzela wrote: post #11
w_t_payne wrote: post #7

Putin justifies his clumsy adventurism by attempting to paint his enemies as fascists. The rise of the extreme right in the west provides significant political cover for Putin, and should probably be assumed to be a tool of his hybrid warfare strategy.

> attempting to paint his enemies as fascists. Ukraine makes this easy for him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

Apparently we can now arm and train these neo-Nazis according to the Wikipedia link:

In March 2015 Interior Minister Arsen Avakov announced that the Azov Regiment would be among the first units to be trained by United States Army troops in their Operation Fearless Guardian training mission.[46][47] US training however was withdrawn on 12 June 2015, as US House of Representatives passed an amendment blocking any aid (including arms and training) to the battalion due to its neo-Nazi background.[48] After the vote Congressman John Conyers thanked the House saying

I am grateful that the House of Representatives unanimously passed my amendments last night to ensure that our military does not train members of the repulsive neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, along with my measures to keep the dangerous and easily trafficked MANPADs out of these unstable regions.[47]

However, the amendment has since been removed as of November 2016.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#37

Post by BrazzVuvuzela »

w_t_payne wrote: post #15
BrazzVuvuzela wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> attempting to paint his enemies as fascists. Ukraine makes this easy for him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

Clearly pretty vile, indefensible stuff, and yet it's Putin who is waging war against us.

Realpolitik: it doesn't matter who started it. If Ukraine wants western assistance in this fight, they should stop incorporating neo-nazi militias into their national guard.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#38

Post by bserge »

lnsru wrote: post #27

There is only way for country’s protection and it’s Israel’s way where whole country is also an army. Especially for countries near unfriendly countries like Russia in this submission. Because all the treaties and documents signed by politicians are absolutely worthless. Ukraine got rid of all the Soviet nuclear weapons and got lots of promises: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Secur... Now they…

Latvia and Lithuania are in NATO, you genius.

If they don't send troops, the whole organization is pointless and will fall apart.

The same probably applies to the EU, as well.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#39

Post by gritzko »

I observe the Ukrainian drama for many years. I strongly suspect that the actual game maybe the opposite of the picture in the media. Ukraine is looted to the bone and the economy is in downward spiral. The beneficiaries of the looting may need a war to write it all off. Meanwhile, if Putin takes Ukraine, he would shoulder a giant pile of debt, plus the responsibility for everything that happens. So the actual game might be like: how to make Putin take Ukraine.

Re: Russian court accidentally confirmed Russian military presence in Ukraine

#40

Post by stevespang »

Facts:

NATO was formed to protect European countries against Soviet aggression and occupation

NATO never attacked any country.

Russian propaganda would have you believe NATO is the evil one.

The European countries below were all INVADED and occupied by the USSR, of which Moscow, Russia was the center of policy,

Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were occupied by the Red USSR Army in June 1940 Finland was invaded in 1940 Poland territories occupied since 1939 Northern Norway, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovakia were invaded in 1944 Austria invaded in 1945 Germany invaded in 1945 Yugoslavia invaded in 1951

Let the javelin's fly !

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